I love Amir's reviews, but he is very minimalistic and sticks mostly to measurements without considering the user's experience and the various options the device offers. In particular, I am shocked by the fact that when he reviews speakers the listening test is carried out using only one!!!
Amirm’s review of the WiiM Ultra
- Thread starter Musician
- Start date
Exactly, but you can pick what to read from Amirm . Electronics is fine, but his measuring of loudspeakers are rather flawed and shows a lack of understanding about the stereo system.
If it really happens then the conclusion is quick - the transparent() function is incorrect.Ultra's dac sounds like crap compared to my RME (which is also transparent). Just saying...
…or Amirm is measuring the wrong things, meaning reading reviews on ASR is a serious waste of time?
Playing with resistance makes bigger sound differences, to make one example.
The Ultras Dac:s extremely low output impedance at 11 ohms dont change the measurement results regarding SINAD but a similar dac implementation with 1 kOhm or 3 kOhm output would sound slightly different, more softer to the ears and less dynamic. I did this mod ( among changing clock and more ..) when I modified a cd player during -90.
This mod can be done using a carbon resistor of 1- 3 kOhm inside the rca contact on the cable, in series at + pole.
( most poweramps have 50 kOhm input impedance so it wont impact the driving performance using the ultra as preamp , If we stick to the implementation impedance rule, more difference than 1:10 between output and input )
……………
Onlyoneme already know this ofcourse…
A rca cable has a caracteristic impedance at RF frequencies between 100-300 ohms, so one could try 300 ohms to - this avoids reflections inside the cable )
So : try 3 kOhm or 300 Ohm as a start to see If the Ultras dac output will sound any different .
Last edited:
VintageFlanker
Member
- Joined
- Jun 8, 2023
- Messages
- 62
Steve Woodhouse
Major Contributor
- Joined
- Aug 11, 2023
- Messages
- 1,499
Then, you need to learn why :
And a reminder that Darko accepts this as well.
Steve Woodhouse
Major Contributor
- Joined
- Aug 11, 2023
- Messages
- 1,499
Very interesting to hear balanced discussion on Amir’s review and measurements.
Especially from those without his years of experience in the industry, standard of measuring equipment, and keyboard warriors not fit to tie his boots.
The audio world equivalent of ‘Monday morning quarterbacks’.
Especially from those without his years of experience in the industry, standard of measuring equipment, and keyboard warriors not fit to tie his boots.
The audio world equivalent of ‘Monday morning quarterbacks’.
Steve Woodhouse
Major Contributor
- Joined
- Aug 11, 2023
- Messages
- 1,499
Once again, it’s time to wheel out…
And a reminder to golden ears members, that the differences they claim to hear are between equipment far more closely specced than any used in that comparison.
And a reminder to golden ears members, that the differences they claim to hear are between equipment far more closely specced than any used in that comparison.
When will you release your measurements of the ultra ?Then, you need to learn why :
Its F Tooles ideas, Im not gonna write more about this. But getting a speaker that measures flat in mono are a sure way to stop listening and enjoying music in longtherm. But go ahead and try it ( I have ).I am not known as a big fan of Mr. Amir M. But this video is bookmarked and stored.
… And I dont like the Harman curve for headphones either
pjorgenunes
Member
- Joined
- Sep 2, 2024
- Messages
- 76
I'm using my PHONO input with my Audio-Technica AT-VM540ML and I'm very very happy with the results (compared with my Schiit Many 2 I don't find any audible differences - at least noticeable).
VintageFlanker
Member
- Joined
- Jun 8, 2023
- Messages
- 62
Now that Amir beated me by a few days/hours (and trust me, I wasn't that happy when seeing it on ASR... but I'm the only one to blame), I think you would agree that I won't be that much in a hurry to release mine. I mean, for visibility/trending purposes, better wait another week. But if you are curious, I now have to publish my measurements about a 3000€ DAC that actually performs miles behind the WiiM Ultra !
Anyway, spoiler alert: his measurements correlate with mine.
He also brings something I'm unable to provide : getting the phono input measured.
Two things. Two cents:
1) Just about every speaker is measured in mono. Whatever flat or not. Otherwise, achieving any standard (not to mention ones as complete as CEA 2034) would literally be an impossible task.
2) I'm not sure which speakers you're thinking about, but you and I had dramatically opposed experience. Since 2020, my two last personal speakers are flat measuring ones, and I never enjoyed listening to music as much as I did in the last four years.
BTW, here's another video:
Last edited:
Joseespona
Member
- Joined
- Aug 18, 2024
- Messages
- 49
I wonder why we all argue about being objective or subjective all the time. In the end it all ends to wherther it sounds good to you or not. I have been playing around with room correction for hours. I have changed preamps, dacs, cables etc. And in the end I hot to realize that its just like every single thing in life. Some like whiskey, some like beer, some like pot. Its a matter of taste. Measurements are fine. But what ultimately makes the best listening experience is choosing the right gear for your space. Right now Im rocking my ultra with no eq feeding an r2r dac with a set of gan clas d monoblocks and floorstsnders 20 cm away from the wall and I dont give a single damn about it being linear, harman or so. It works for me. The ultra gives me the connections I need and thats about it. My room is imperfect so who cares. But it sounds amazing to me and my wife allows my set up so win win
Joseespona
Member
- Joined
- Aug 18, 2024
- Messages
- 49
Oh my. I forgot about all the nonsense about what the artist intended. First things first. Artists intend stuff in a way we can’t figure out because of how we are wired. I feel pain in a very specific way that you may not. Such thing is replicable to hearing. Mood, light, stress. If the artist wrote the song hyped up in MJ or LSD good luck with eq, gear and linearity
Thanks for reply !Now that Amir beated me by a few days/hours (and trust me, I wasn't that happy when seeing it on ASR... but I'm the only one to blame), I think you would agree that I won't be that much in a hurry to release mine. I mean, for visibility/trending purposes, better wait another week. But if you are curious, I now have to publish my measurements about a 3000€ DAC that actually performs miles behind the WiiM Ultra !
Anyway, spoiler alert: his measurements correlate with mine.
He also brings something I'm unable to provide : getting the phono input measured.
Two things. Two cents:
1) Just about every speaker is measured in mono. Whatever flat or not. Otherwise, achieving any standard (not to mention ones as complete as CEA 2034) would literally be an impossible task.
2) I'm not sure which speakers you're thinking about, but you and I had dramatically opposed experience. Since 2020, my two last personal speakers are flat measuring ones, and I never enjoyed listening to music as much as I did in the last four years.
BTW, here's another video:
Nice to hear that the Ultra measures fine.
I have read all the books from F Toole in the search for perfect sound.
Regarding my former Genelec 8340 SAM monitors , measuring very well , but totally outclassed by a Markaudio single driver speaker , no contest at all. After peq equalization even better. I was very surprised. I also tried a smaller monitor, Genelec 8030 - same result. And I listened in stereo with two speakers.
I cant go back hearing the imperfections of a crossover anymore. Before my SAM monitors I had a 3 way dsp DIY speaker that measured equally well as the Genelecs. Not good enough. Putting a waveguide before a tweeter brings good directivity but smears the signal with early reflections from the waveguide that simply sounds bad .
I do semiproffesional 2 channel recordings of acoustical instruments like chamber music, and my Markaudio speaker in a stereo setup sounds much more like the original sound in the concert hall. I have seen all the videos by Erin and even heard the Kef blade 2 meta during a couple of hours - a good speaker no doubt but not as good sounding as the Sibelius loudspeaker.
Last edited:
My guess would be HoloAudio, it seems it are the go-to DACs at the moment. Eventually the Spring 3 Level 2?
Measurements & Preview of Holo Audio Spring 3 DAC / wPreamp (Prototype)
Holo Audio's Spring series has not been updated for 3 years... Recently, even on ASR, there are rumors that Spring 3 will be released soon. Last year, Jeff stated in his QQ team that he would use May's module to develop Spring 3. It can be inferred that since May is ready, Spring 3 should be...
audiosciencereview.com
VintageFlanker
Member
- Joined
- Jun 8, 2023
- Messages
- 62
That's true.
No, but close. That's a newcomer in the R2R DAC market.
Steve Woodhouse
Major Contributor
- Joined
- Aug 11, 2023
- Messages
- 1,499
“What the artist intended” may indeed be a stretch, but “the intent at the end of the mastering process” certainly isn’t.
Similar threads
