An unimaginable torture: Ultra or Amp Pro

[Steve Woodhouse]

WiiM have conspired to impose an unimaginable torture on me. And, I suspect, others.

I won’t go all the way back to the first streamers, but with the Amp we had a seemingly perfect* device. The DAC and amp effectively transparent, with a cheap but efficient amplification stage, and a feature set unrivalled in its price range. Or, for that matter, any price range.

Then the (not unreasonable) criticisms of the amp stage. Load dependent, can’t drive large speakers in huge rooms yada yada yada.

So then we have the Ultra. Like the Amp (with its sub out and bass management) but unhindered by any amp stage. Choose your own. Knock yourself out.

And then, all of a sudden, out of the blue, the Amp Pro. A seemingly perfect (*no seriously, stay with me) device, and this time with the Amp’s issues (hopefully) sorted.

So why buy the Ultra and another amp? * Well, I suppose the Amp Pro might not measure as well as it appears it will. Or you might have colossal speakers which have poor sensitivity and listening to them in the RAH, but otherwise it’s endgame.

But here’s the thing.

If you buy the Amp Pro, you’re completely tied in. No outputs other than speaker posts and sub out**. No way of bypassing the internals. No way of relegating it to preamp status if you want a ‘better’ amp.

Whereas an Ultra - presuming for a second that it’s transparent - leaves you with as much flexibility as you could ask for.

Which to buy? An unimaginable torture.

* Transparent DAC, PEQ, sub out, bass management, relatively powerful, nominally flat FR.

** Other than via than USB to DAC, but WiiM currently indicate that choosing digital out disables analogue out, so no sub out and bass management.

 

[Smartplug]

WiiM have conspired to impose an unimaginable torture on me. And, I suspect, others.

I won’t go all the way back to the first streamers, but with the Amp we had a seemingly perfect* device. The DAC and amp effectively transparent, with a cheap but efficient amplification stage, and a feature set unrivalled in its price range. Or, for that matter, any price range.

Then the (not unreasonable) criticisms of the amp stage. Load dependent, can’t drive large speakers in huge rooms yada yada yada.

So then we have the Ultra. Like the Amp (with its sub out and bass management) but unhindered by any amp stage. Choose your own. Knock yourself out.

And then, all of a sudden, out of the blue, the Amp Pro. A seemingly perfect (*no seriously, stay with me) device, and this time with the Amp’s issues (hopefully) sorted.

So why buy the Ultra and another amp? * Well, I suppose the Amp Pro might not measure as well as it appears it will. Or you might have colossal speakers which have poor sensitivity and listening to them in the RAH, but otherwise it’s endgame.

But here’s the thing.

If you buy the Amp Pro, you’re completely tied in. No outputs other than speaker posts and sub out**. No way of bypassing the internals. No way of relegating it to preamp status if you want a ‘better’ amp.

Whereas an Ultra - presuming for a second that it’s transparent - leaves you with as much flexibility as you could ask for.

Which to buy? An unimaginable torture.

* Transparent DAC, PEQ, sub out, bass management, relatively powerful, nominally flat FR.

** Other than via than USB to DAC, but WiiM currently indicate that choosing digital out disables analogue out, so no sub out and bass management.

Soon, wiim will release a firmware that allow to use usb as output to feed external dac but how would you control the volume via external dac or amp itself?

 

[hoohoohoo]

WiiM have conspired to impose an unimaginable torture on me. And, I suspect, others.

I won’t go all the way back to the first streamers, but with the Amp we had a seemingly perfect* device. The DAC and amp effectively transparent, with a cheap but efficient amplification stage, and a feature set unrivalled in its price range. Or, for that matter, any price range.

Then the (not unreasonable) criticisms of the amp stage. Load dependent, can’t drive large speakers in huge rooms yada yada yada.

So then we have the Ultra. Like the Amp (with its sub out and bass management) but unhindered by any amp stage. Choose your own. Knock yourself out.

And then, all of a sudden, out of the blue, the Amp Pro. A seemingly perfect (*no seriously, stay with me) device, and this time with the Amp’s issues (hopefully) sorted.

So why buy the Ultra and another amp? * Well, I suppose the Amp Pro might not measure as well as it appears it will. Or you might have colossal speakers which have poor sensitivity and listening to them in the RAH, but otherwise it’s endgame.

But here’s the thing.

If you buy the Amp Pro, you’re completely tied in. No outputs other than speaker posts and sub out**. No way of bypassing the internals. No way of relegating it to preamp status if you want a ‘better’ amp.

Whereas an Ultra - presuming for a second that it’s transparent - leaves you with as much flexibility as you could ask for.

Which to buy? An unimaginable torture.

* Transparent DAC, PEQ, sub out, bass management, relatively powerful, nominally flat FR.

** Other than via than USB to DAC, but WiiM currently indicate that choosing digital out disables analogue out, so no sub out and bass management.

We have a medical name for this condition -- featuritis despairus.

If you have another amplifier that you like, Ultra seems like the way to go. If you're looking for a new amplifier, then Amp Pro is the choice.

 

[onlyoneme]

A flashlight might help to evaluate which one is more transparent.

 

[cooky560]

I want to see testing of the Amp Pro before I decide if I want to order it to replace my Amp. I am keen on adding the Ultra to one of my systems.

I don't see from what WiiM has said what changes have been made to the Amp stage (other than PFFB) so I want to see how it sounds

 

[Wiimer]

1. Steve finally decides to buy Ultra. However, he is so happy that he drops it down the stairs and breaks it.....Tears.

2. Steve finally decides to buy Ultra. But the next day. The very next day, however, the support team announces the ultra-high-performance "WiiM Ultra MAX" with big smiles on their faces......Armpits sweat.
3. Steve finally decides to wait for Amp pro. But for some reason, the release is postponed to 3 years later.....Cry very hard.

4. And, 3 years later, Steve is staring at the WiiM Mini in the corner of his room, wondering what to do with it.....He lost 1 kg.

Now, which one would you bet on?

(I sincerely hope Steve is happy and free from torture.)

 

[Steve Woodhouse]

My mind may be made up/my hand forced simply be the Ultra arriving earlier.

 

[WiiMer SJ]

1. Steve finally decides to buy Ultra. However, he is so happy that he drops it down the stairs and breaks it.....Tears.

2. Steve finally decides to buy Ultra. But the next day. The very next day, however, the support team announces the ultra-high-performance "WiiM Ultra MAX" with big smiles on their faces......Armpits sweat.
3. Steve finally decides to wait for Amp pro. But for some reason, the release is postponed to 3 years later.....Cry very hard.

4. And, 3 years later, Steve is staring at the WiiM Mini in the corner of his room, wondering what to do with it.....He lost 1 kg.

Now, which one would you bet on?

(I sincerely hope Steve is happy and free from torture.)

5. Steve purchases both, and his significant other puts him on an allowance.

 

[Smartplug]

5. Steve purchases both, and his significant other puts him on an allowance.

Yes indeed buy both listen to both and decide which one you like and return you don’t like.

 

[Steve Woodhouse]

5. Steve purchases both, and his significant other puts him on an allowance.

What makes you think I’m not on one already?

 

[WiiM Support]

WiiM have conspired to impose an unimaginable torture on me. And, I suspect, others.

I won’t go all the way back to the first streamers, but with the Amp we had a seemingly perfect* device. The DAC and amp effectively transparent, with a cheap but efficient amplification stage, and a feature set unrivalled in its price range. Or, for that matter, any price range.

Then the (not unreasonable) criticisms of the amp stage. Load dependent, can’t drive large speakers in huge rooms yada yada yada.

So then we have the Ultra. Like the Amp (with its sub out and bass management) but unhindered by any amp stage. Choose your own. Knock yourself out.

And then, all of a sudden, out of the blue, the Amp Pro. A seemingly perfect (*no seriously, stay with me) device, and this time with the Amp’s issues (hopefully) sorted.

So why buy the Ultra and another amp? * Well, I suppose the Amp Pro might not measure as well as it appears it will. Or you might have colossal speakers which have poor sensitivity and listening to them in the RAH, but otherwise it’s endgame.

But here’s the thing.

If you buy the Amp Pro, you’re completely tied in. No outputs other than speaker posts and sub out**. No way of bypassing the internals. No way of relegating it to preamp status if you want a ‘better’ amp.

Whereas an Ultra - presuming for a second that it’s transparent - leaves you with as much flexibility as you could ask for.

Which to buy? An unimaginable torture.

* Transparent DAC, PEQ, sub out, bass management, relatively powerful, nominally flat FR.

** Other than via than USB to DAC, but WiiM currently indicate that choosing digital out disables analogue out, so no sub out and bass management.

Please note that the digital out and sub out can work simultaneously with bass management.

 

[Steve Woodhouse]

Please note that the digital out and sub out can work simultaneously with bass management.

For absolute clarity - I can use bass management to split the stereo, full frequency signal into (1) a high passed main left & right speaker signal, and send that out over digital to an external DAC, and (2) a low passed signal which is sent over the analogue ‘sub out’ output?

Do I have that right?

Many thanks.

 

[WiiM Support]

For absolute clarity - I can use bass management to split the stereo, full frequency signal into (1) a high passed main left & right speaker signal, and send that out over digital to an external DAC, and (2) a low passed signal which is sent over the analogue ‘sub out’ output?

Do I have that right?

Many thanks.

Yes, that's correct. It is agnostic to both digital and analog audio outputs.

 

[Steve Woodhouse]

Yes, that's correct. It is agnostic to both digital and analog audio outputs.

 

[Steve Woodhouse]

Yes, that's correct. It is agnostic to both digital and analog audio outputs.

If I may make a suggestion.

Get back to the big boss and tell him/her to big this up.

Particularly - the one main criticism/disappointment I’m seeing is ‘no balanced outs’.

Well, we’ve know from the kick off that you can, of course, use the digital output to a DAC with balanced outs, and then use those balanced outs to your amp. Problem solved.

And most people wanting balanced outs will probably have a DAC with balanced outs anyway.

But it looked like, in doing this, you’d lose the whole sub out, bass management facility.

It’s now clear you won’t.

This will be a big selling point, and a deal-breaker for some. You could do to put it up in all the literature, and make a specific note to any reviewers to whom you send units.

Just my humble suggestion.

 

[Brantome]

If I may make a suggestion.

Get back to the big boss and tell him/her to big this up.

Particularly - the one main criticism/disappointment I’m seeing is ‘no balanced outs’.

Well, we’ve know from the kick off that you can, of course, use the digital output to a DAC with balanced outs, and then use those balanced outs to your amp. Problem solved.

And most people wanting balanced outs will probably have a DAC with balanced outs anyway.

But it looked like, in doing this, you’d lose the whole sub out, bass management facility.

It’s now clear you won’t.

This will be a big selling point, and a deal-breaker for some. You could do to put it up in all the literature, and make a specific note to any reviewers to whom you send units.

Just my humble suggestion.

Or they can simply include it in the FAQ they’re compiling from the Ultra Q&A and point users to that. But who reads FAQs?

 

[Brantome]

I know, I know…

 

[onlyoneme]

Please note that the digital out and sub out can work simultaneously with bass management.

Is sub out still controlled by the separate dac chip?

 

[Steve Woodhouse]

Is sub out still controlled by the separate dac chip?

No, it clearly wouldn't be.

The WiiM Ultra would split the signal digitally into low and high frequency signals. The internal DAC would then decode the low frequency portion and send that to the sub out. The high frequency digital portion would be sent to the external DAC.

I'm incredibly sceptical that anyone could tell the difference between any two decent (or even average) DACs purely listening to the 20hz-c.100hz portion of the frequency spectrum.

 

[WiiM Support]

Is sub out still controlled by the separate dac chip?

Yes.