Brutal RMA Experience in Canada

[Burnside]

I had a long and happy "Chat with GPT"™ and the result seems pretty clear. Even though Canadian laws differ from EU regulation, naturally, the situation regarding the statutory warranty is essentially the same:

It's the seller's responsibility to warrant the goods are fit for purpose, of acceptable quality and reasonably durable.

Shops may offer something like a “30-days-money-back-no-qurstions-asked" policy, but this is totally unrelated. To cute my good friend:


And that's the real cause of this unpleasant situation.

A manufacturer's warranty might come on top of any purchase, but it's the manufacturer's right to define the conditions under which this additional warranty applies. And one of these conditions can be: Get back to the seller, first.

Now, everyone smarter than AI is invited to provide evidence for how wrong all this is.

Pretty much my conclusion after a quick non-AI google search a few days back.

Sounds like Bestbuy really messed this up or just have pretty poor customer service - the Microland agency appear to the the outfit responsible for repairs for one of Canada’s main WiiM distributors Gentec who I guess supplied Bestbuy in the first instance. While repairing a faulty unit may be one of the remedial options, I would have thought the responsibility for the RMA lay with Bestbuy/Gentec rather than relying on the end customer having to deal directly with their repair agency with whom they have no contractual relationship.

I don’t think that it’s Wiim who “really need to reevaluate this process in Canada”, it’s Bestbuy or their distributor Gentec.

 

[slartibartfast]

I had a long and happy "Chat with GPT"™ and the result seems pretty clear. Even though Canadian laws differ from EU regulation, naturally, the situation regarding the statutory warranty is essentially the same:

It's the seller's responsibility to warrant the goods are fit for purpose, of acceptable quality and reasonably durable.

Shops may offer something like a “30-days-money-back-no-qurstions-asked" policy, but this is totally unrelated. To cute my good friend:


And that's the real cause of this unpleasant situation.

A manufacturer's warranty might come on top of any purchase, but it's the manufacturer's right to define the conditions under which this additional warranty applies. And one of these conditions can be: Get back to the seller, first.

Now, everyone smarter than AI is invited to provide evidence for how wrong all this is.

I wonder where GPT found the info. I can't find any clear information about warranties in Canada.

 

[GeeTee]

Did Ai mention 'customer goodwill' .. ... knowing your rights where ever you purchase is clearly important, but I have always found my initial contact when reporting a problem is crucial, including an 'audit trail' of exactly whats has gone wrong and a very polite request for help suggesting a 'credit note' over a full refund as the company then still has your £££$$$ which after all is what they really want.
I also think where possible the 'manufacturer' should be made aware of your issues, in this case 'WiiM' as their reputation is affected by 'negative' social media discussions and maybe some 'customer goodwill' might help fix things ..

 

[Mr Ee]

"Retail staff (and sadly, sometimes managers) often confuse..."
Been there a few times, usually with younger staff who don't understand Australian Comsumer Law, and it can be quite a battle to finally get to someone who knows their responsibilities.

I wish the OP the best.

 

[harkpabst]

Did Ai mention 'customer goodwill' .. ... knowing your rights where ever you purchase is clearly important, but I have always found my initial contact when reporting a problem is crucial, including an 'audit trail' of exactly whats has gone wrong and a very polite request for help suggesting a 'credit note' over a full refund as the company then still has your £££$$$ which after all is what they really want.
I also think where possible the 'manufacturer' should be made aware of your issues, in this case 'WiiM' as their reputation is affected by 'negative' social media discussions and maybe some 'customer goodwill' might help fix things ..

Surely polite customers are often successful in claiming their rights. Just please don't try to turn around legal responsibility.

I wonder where GPT found the info. I can't find any clear information about warranties in Canada.

Here are some links ChatGPT came up with:

Manitoba Laws

web2.gov.mb.ca

Consumer Protection | Province of Manitoba

Province of Manitoba - Consumer Protection

www.gov.mb.ca

Warranties

Get insights from the Office of Consumer Affairs on different types of warranties, including information on making claims and identifying scams.

ised-isde.canada.ca

e-Laws | Ontario.ca

www.ontario.ca

Different provinces seem to formally declare customer rights more or less explicitly.

 

[GeeTee]

@harkpabst .. not quite sure if this was directed at my comment, but can you clarify .. 'Just please don't try to turn around legal responsibility'.

 

[Aquaman]

@harkpabst .. not quite sure if this was directed at my comment, but can you clarify .. 'Just please don't try to turn around legal responsibility'.

He meant that dealers should be customer oriented and display a corresponding attitude towards their customers beyond and in addition to legal warranty responsibilites. Not vice versa. Even though politeness works both ways.

 

[GeeTee]

He meant that dealers should be customer oriented and display a corresponding attitude towards their customers beyond and in addition to legal warranty responsibilites. Not vice versa. Even though politeness works both ways.

fair comment, at the very least i expect a retailer or anybody hoping to sell me almost anything to be 'customer orientated' but the term 'turning around legal responsibilty' was used. No biggi life goes on hopefully the OP will get their unit returned fully working.

 

[aegli214]

The nightmare continues. I called Microland twice more and eventually got a tracking number. Today it was delivered and I opened the box to find a "WiiM Amp" instead of the "WiiM Amp Pro" I sent in.

I'm beside myself right now. I can't believe how painful this whole thing has been.

To answer people's questions about how RMAs typically go in Canada. I've usually experienced the following:
--Within 30 days, take it back to the seller and they immediately give you a new one or your money back.
--After 30 days, the manufacturer typically gives you an RMA number and you ship it to them and they send a new one back.
----About half the time (assuming the seller is really nice), they just send you a new working one without you returning your old one. Occasionally, if the product is unrepairable, they ask you to record a video of you destroying it somehow, so you can't sell the old broken one.

This whole WiiM -> BestBuy -> WiiM -> Bestbuy (drive an hour) -> Gentec (x5 calls) -> Microland, who clearly hasn't seen one of these amps before is not the usual way of doing things.

Here's some examples of recent RMAs I've had in Canada: A friend bought a high end subwoofer that made strange noise around 80Hz. The manufacturer sent a new amp and driver and asked him it would be okay if he swapped them in himself. This fixed the problem quickly. Great customer service. Another example in the past year, I bought some YakTrax ski boot soles online and the wrong size was in the box (XL in a L box). I emailed the company to inquire about this, and they immediately sent me a pair of large size, without me even requesting it and told me to keep the XLs. Great customer service again.

Anyway, I've called Microland again and they asked me to send an email and said I would hear back in two days... Will keep everyone updated.

 

[MCG555]

The nightmare continues. I called Microland twice more and eventually got a tracking number. Today it was delivered and I opened the box to find a "WiiM Amp" instead of the "WiiM Amp Pro" I sent in.

I'm beside myself right now. I can't believe how painful this whole thing has been.

To answer people's questions about how RMAs typically go in Canada. I've usually experienced the following:
--Within 30 days, take it back to the seller and they immediately give you a new one or your money back.
--After 30 days, the manufacturer typically gives you an RMA number and you ship it to them and they send a new one back.
----About half the time (assuming the seller is really nice), they just send you a new working one without you returning your old one. Occasionally, if the product is unrepairable, they ask you to record a video of you destroying it somehow, so you can't sell the old broken one.

This whole WiiM -> BestBuy -> WiiM -> Bestbuy (drive an hour) -> Gentec (x5 calls) -> Microland, who clearly hasn't seen one of these amps before is not the usual way of doing things.

Here's some examples of recent RMAs I've had in Canada: A friend bought a high end subwoofer that made strange noise around 80Hz. The manufacturer sent a new amp and driver and asked him it would be okay if he swapped them in himself. This fixed the problem quickly. Great customer service. Another example in the past year, I bought some YakTrax ski boot soles online and the wrong size was in the box (XL in a L box). I emailed the company to inquire about this, and they immediately sent me a pair of large size, without me even requesting it and told me to keep the XLs. Great customer service again.

Anyway, I've called Microland again and they asked me to send an email and said I would hear back in two days... Will keep everyone updated.

This is a nightmare! I am sorry for you. Not sure what I would do…

 

[badunn]

I would expect a Wiim admin to have read this and offer direly needed help. @RyanWithWiiM ?

 

[GeeTee]

@aegli214 .. are 'microland' disputing that you sent a faulty 'wiim amp pro' in ? do you have have 'evidence' of the unit you sent in or original receipts showing details etc.
clearly someone at 'microland' could have just mistakenly sent the wrong model as they look very similar to the 'untrained eye' .. is the unit they sent you 'unopened brand new' ?


* pics from wiim website

 

[anonyless]

I would expect a Wiim admin to have read this and offer direly needed help. @RyanWithWiiM ?

the only relevant reply in this thread. and i read all the useless "me focused" replies here (Canada is not in Europe last i checked)

@aegli214 , I don't know what the consumer laws are like in Canada, but from your detailed description on what happened so far,
you should reach out some local consumer protection agency and ask for their involvement, as you aren't getting any useful solution from the manufacturer . and the obvious as you mentioned, stop buying WiiM products on big chains .
amazingly enough, you'd probably be getting much better CS and maybe even a refund, if you had bought the amp on Amazon - speaking from personal experience.

 

[pat1975]

Just shows that Canadian consumers would be better off if Canada joined the EU. All they need to do is become part of St Pierre et Miquelon, and hey presto! EU directives, citizenship, freedom of movement & the Euro apply. Three year warranties. French TV & Radio France. Bingo!

I should note that "Radio France" and "Doomsday Clock" in your signature are too close to one another for it to be a coincidence. Any good conspiracy theorist would see a link there

 

[RyanWithWiiM]

Thanks for flagging me down folks! This sounds like a nightmare and I'm investigating what's going on here. @aegli214 , if you have a ticket number with the WiiM team, can you send it to me in a private message? It'll help dig into things.

 

[laxcoach47]

It would be better than being the 51st American state in any case

It would be better for us too

 

[aegli214]

Thanks Ryan for following up! I have sent a DM to you with the original ticket details.

@aegli214 .. are 'microland' disputing that you sent a faulty 'wiim amp pro' in ? do you have have 'evidence' of the unit you sent in or original receipts showing details etc.
clearly someone at 'microland' could have just mistakenly sent the wrong model as they look very similar to the 'untrained eye' .. is the unit they sent you 'unopened brand new' ?


* pics from wiim website
View attachment 33184

Microland does not appear to be disputing anything. I believe it's a mistake on their part because the amps look so similar. They sent back a brand new sealed one. I think they're unfamiliar with the product line, and didn't understand that there was an "Amp" and "Amp Pro" and sent the wrong one. They responded last night saying they are looking into getting an Amp Pro and they would keep me updated.

I got a call from a director at Gentec this morning, looking to understand what's been happening so they can improve their protocols. I wasn't able to answer due to work meetings, but looks like some stuff is happening. I assume this is Ryan/WiiM starting to poke people, so thank you again!

 

[RyanWithWiiM]

Thanks Ryan for following up! I have sent a DM to you with the original ticket details.



Microland does not appear to be disputing anything. I believe it's a mistake on their part because the amps look so similar. They sent back a brand new sealed one. I think they're unfamiliar with the product line, and didn't understand that there was an "Amp" and "Amp Pro" and sent the wrong one. They responded last night saying they are looking into getting an Amp Pro and they would keep me updated.

I got a call from a director at Gentec this morning, looking to understand what's been happening so they can improve their protocols. I wasn't able to answer due to work meetings, but looks like some stuff is happening. I assume this is Ryan/WiiM starting to poke people, so thank you again!

Thanks! Just responded to you. Gentec is our primary distributor in Canada and everyone there that answers phones knows the WiiM brand quite well, they've been a great partner of ours. And Microland is their go to repair shop who should also be very in the know, they've been working together for a while.

I got a several responses from Gentec leadership that they're digging into the situation and the director who called you is very invested in this, he was aware of things before I even started poking. You should be all settled soon! They'll be doing some internal investigations as well to see what happened here and to make any improvements needed.

Thanks for jumping in everyone who tried to help, and maybe we can try to minimize the political adjacent crosstalk when it's not adding value.

 

[anonyless]

They'll be doing some internal investigations as well to see what happened here and to make any improvements needed.

after re-reading the first message in this thread, you should be doing some internal investigations with your own support team as well, who wasted hours (and fuel money) of OP time

 

[GeeTee]

@aegli214 .. hopefully your 'nightmare' is coming to an end .. keep us posted