Is no XLR out on ultra a dealbreaker for using amps with xlr in option?

[Steve Woodhouse]

EXCELLENT NEWS!

As confirmed by WiiM earlier.

If you have a DAC with balanced outs (and I'm going to guess most people eager for the Ultra to have balanced outs will already have such a DAC*), then you can take the digital out from the Ultra into that DAC, then used the balanced outs on the DAC to feed your amp.

Now we knew that already. But WiiM have confirmed that you can do this, using the external DAC for the main L&R speakers, whilst maintaining use of the Ultra's bass management and subwoofer output.

* If you don't have such a DAC, you can pick one up for c.£120. I know this isn't perfect, but it's a reasonable work around. Even then, you're only paying £450, which many people would think was a great price for the Ultra anyway.

 

[dangermouse]

Q: Is no XLR out on ultra a dealbreaker for using amps with xlr in option?

A: No.

 

[g3rain1]

I have a hard time envisioning anyone caring about XLR who isn't going to already be using an external DAC.

 

[jed1]

A lot of powered subwoofers in either consumer or pro have XLR inputs in addition to RCA. When a powered subwoofer is plug into an outlet that does not share common ground with the rest of system, ground loop (50 or 60Hz) will likely happen in the middle of subwoofer band.

 

[Steve Woodhouse]

A lot of powered subwoofers in either consumer or pro have XLR inputs in addition to RCA. When a powered subwoofer is plug into an outlet that does not share common ground with the rest of system, ground loop (50 or 60Hz) will likely happen in the middle of subwoofer band.

If you connect the Ultra to the DAC by optical, it essential isolates the DAC from the rest of the system.

 

[jed1]

If you connect the Ultra to the DAC by optical, it essential isolates the DAC from the rest of the system.

I set up mine with Toslink output and use external stereo DAC. Subwoofer output from WiiM is still unbalanced for such case and volume control is not following DAC volume.

This is why I feed balanced left and right channels from DAC to a powered subwoofer and have the subwoofer handle crossover and feed high pass signals to main active speakers.

Driving a 2.1 system requires 3 balanced outputs from WiiM.

 

[Steve Woodhouse]

I set up mine with Toslink output and use external stereo DAC. Subwoofer output from WiiM is still unbalanced for such case and volume control is not following DAC volume.

Would you care to explain this, given that the Ultra hasn’t been released yet, and that the only other current WiiM product with a sub out is the Amp, which doesn’t have a digital output to a DAC?

Witchcraft?

Time travel?

 

[jed1]

Would you care to explain this, given that the Ultra hasn’t been released yet, and that the only other current WiiM product with a sub out is the Amp, which doesn’t have a digital output to a DAC?

Witchcraft?

Time travel?

Sure.

WiiM Pro or Pro Plus can output via Toslink or COAX. Main difference between Pro/Pro Plus and Ultra is an analogue subwoofer output. I connect Toslink output from WiiM Pro Plus to a stereo DAC (fully balanced) that had Toslink input. Balanced outputs from the DAC are connected to left and right balanced inputs of a powered subwoofer. The subwoofer I use can output balanced left and right signals with high pass filter applied. I use the high passed left and right balanced outputs to feed active powered speakers that takes balanced inputs. I use fixed output from WiiM (100%). and the DAC's volume control. So, when I change the volume, it change subwoofer and main speakers at the same time. All possible with current WiiM Mini, Pro, and Pro+.

 

[Smartplug]

If you connect the Ultra to the DAC by optical, it essential isolates the DAC from the rest of the system.

Optical is immune on rf and other contaminants which I prefer over coax. I’m sure many would disagree but hey that’s my take and entitled on personal opinion.

 

[Steve Woodhouse]

Sure.

WiiM Pro or Pro Plus can output via Toslink or COAX. Main difference between Pro/Pro Plus and Ultra is an analogue subwoofer output. I connect Toslink output from WiiM Pro Plus to a stereo DAC (fully balanced) that had Toslink input. Balanced outputs from the DAC are connected to left and right balanced inputs of a powered subwoofer. The subwoofer I use can output balanced left and right signals with high pass filter applied. I use the high passed left and right balanced outputs to feed active powered speakers that takes balanced inputs. I use fixed output from WiiM (100%). and the DAC's volume control. So, when I change the volume, it change subwoofer and main speakers at the same time. All possible with current WiiM Mini, Pro, and Pro+.

How does that fit in with your original claim that “Subwoofer output from WiiM is still unbalanced for such case and volume control is not following DAC volume.”

Unless you’re daft enough to change the volume of the DAC and think somehow you could control the sub?

Clearly, you set the DAC’s volume to 100%, and the Ultra’s volume control raises and lowers the volume of both sub and L/R at the same time.

 

[jed1]

How does that fit in with your original claim that “Subwoofer output from WiiM is still unbalanced for such case and volume control is not following DAC volume.”

Unless you’re daft enough to change the volume of the DAC and think somehow you could control the sub?

Clearly, you set the DAC’s volume to 100%, and the Ultra’s volume control raises and lowers the volume of both sub and L/R at the same time.

Perhaps, I can explain better.

I currently use fixed volume at 100% with WiiM Pro Plus for toslink output.

If I would set up WiiM Ultra in the same fashion (100% fixed volume for toslink output to feed an external DAC), I no longer have a volume control on WiiM by definition of fixed volume. I believe that's the part where misunderstanding happens. WiiM at fixed volume and DAC at variable volume. Others may have different opinion about where to control the volume. My preference is toward downstream (amplifier) rather than upstream (source).

I hope this is clearer than the previous statement.

 

[Steve Woodhouse]

Those posts are an incredibly long-winded way of saying “I prefer not to use digital volume controls”.

And, going back to your original point, having a balanced out from the WiiM to your sub makes absolutely no difference in this instance.

 

[dangermouse]

Darko at 7:06

 

[Brantome]

Darko at 7:06

Yeah, posted earlier at
Post in thread 'Meet WiiM Ultra - The Digital Hub for Your Music'
https://forum.wiimhome.com/threads/meet-wiim-ultra-the-digital-hub-for-your-music.3487/post-54704

 

[Brantome]

And he made my day with his pointer to the price! A fact a lot of people around here seem to forget.

Entirely. And I wonder who that user sneakyds is answering a couple of his queries? Wonder if there’s a Linn connection there?

 

[dangermouse]

"Beggars cannae be choosers."
Guess who taught me that?

One of my Granny's favourite sayings! It ranked up there with "Awa' and bile yer heid".

 

[pieterv1]

Absense of XLR is absolutely not a dealbreaker for me... And pretty logical at the price point. I believe people who are so heavily invested in their audio gear that they need balanced interconnects over a distance of less than a meter, will probably use an external high-end DAC anyways.

 

[jed1]

Absense of XLR is absolutely not a dealbreaker for me... And pretty logical at the price point. I believe people who are so heavily invested in their audio gear that they need balanced interconnects over a distance of less than a meter, will probably use an external high-end DAC anyways.

Agree. This morning I tried Pro Plus line out to feed my active speakers. After listening one of my favorite tracks, I regret that I did this experiment, and I switched back to the external balanced DAC. It is all up to individual preference, though. I am sure Ultra may give some uplift in sound quality from Pro Plus. But, I don't expect Ultra to outperform any latest generation DACs > $150 - we will see (or hear).

 

[Steve Woodhouse]

Zombie thread, I know.

But beta testers have now confirmed that, if you already have a DAC with balanced outs, you can use that (effectively adding balanced outs to the Ultra) and still keep full functionality for bass management/analogue sub out, PEQ, etc.

 

[ehowarth]

Lack of balanced outs was not a dealbreaker for me. I bought the Ultra and love its feature set.

However, I discovered that I do need balanced outs. I heard an annoying ground loop while playing Roon. It came from one of the HDMI inputs to the TV and on through the Ultra ARC input. In the short run, I disconnected the extra input.