Jitter over digital outputs for different WiiMs

[hgo58]

A very good explanation of jitter here: https://audioxpress.com/article/audio-electronics-is-digital-jitter-really-a-problem

"The usual scapegoats “fullness and width” are clearly not affected by the addition of jitter noise. Even with the jitter at 10µs, which is huge and limits the signal-to-noise ratio (SNR) to only 35dB, you can appreciate the power of the masking effect. "

 

[adias]

If Rob Watts is right about this ( he probably is ) then the audible changes should be what you describe.
This is also my experience when experimenting with different power supplies - less RFi ( both in SMPS or LPS) = a more relaxed and slightly darker sound.

I use an iPad connected to an external DAC and following Rob Watts advice I compared a direct USB connection (iPad on battery) to a USB connection via a charger adapter (Belkin product sold by Apple). I observed what Rob Watts claimed; non-powered connection, smoother with better sibilants and powered connection slightly brighter.

 

[CrystalGipsy]

With Steadyclock FS, I don’t even need to think about jitter, thankfully.

Not true really. I recently used my pi via usb compared to same stream via spdif out of attached Hifiberry hat using Roon with each one as its own zone and both grouped so I could switch between inputs. The usb input sounded way better. The spdif to me was nasty. So I think Jitter can still affect even the RME. Garbage in Garbage out. You can’t polish a turd however hard we try.

 

[canard]

Not true really. I recently used my pi via usb compared to same stream via spdif out of attached Hifiberry hat using Roon with each one as its own zone and both grouped so I could switch between inputs. The usb input sounded way better. The spdif to me was nasty. So I think Jitter can still affect even the RME. Garbage in Garbage out. You can’t polish a turd however hard we try.

I don't understand well...in your case..to which rme machine?

 

[hgo58]

Just remember that each time you add another step (component) in your audio signal chain it adds noise and distortion.

 

[cc_rider]

Just remember that each time you add another step (component) in your audio signal chain it adds noise and distortion.

Hmmm. I remember making long distance phone calls back in the '60s. Analog all the way, lots of background noise was very audible, additive at each amplifier in the chain. Today, you can make a call around the world with crystal clarity, because it's digital except at each endpoint (phone).

 

[cc_rider]

Not true really. I recently used my pi via usb compared to same stream via spdif out of attached Hifiberry hat using Roon with each one as its own zone and both grouped so I could switch between inputs. The usb input sounded way better. The spdif to me was nasty. So I think Jitter can still affect even the RME. Garbage in Garbage out. You can’t polish a turd however hard we try.

Sorry, but anecdotal "evidence" ain't worth the time...

IME, there's zero difference in the "sound" of the inputs to the RME, and measurements bear this out.

 

[hgo58]

Hmmm. I remember making long distance phone calls back in the '60s. Analog all the way, lots of background noise was very audible, additive at each amplifier in the chain. Today, you can make a call around the world with crystal clarity, because it's digital except at each endpoint (phone).

Someway correct but there is still a bit of noise and distortion added each time the transmission changes format but for phone sound there is still a very narrow frequency band. So you don't really hear it.

With HiFi audio the change of transmission format do the same however this is usually below human detection or we don't recognize it as noise/distortion but as a different sound signature. It do however all add up from the first sampling at the recording to the final DAC.

 

[Nitra987]

Months later (and I apologize), the only connection that gave me 'magic audio' was when I used optical Toslink between my WiiM Pro Plus and Geshelli J3 (with Sparkos dual SS2590's forwarding the results through the unbalanced RCA outputs). Simply, night and day in my experience vs coax. Inexpensive for anyone to try. End game for me.

 

[canard]

maybe before putting forward the use of toslink for a reason of galvanic isolation, you just have to check if your dac does not have isolation transformers ( or via optocoupler ) on the "coax" inputs ....
something that the wiim do not have on their output (to be checked on the ultra but from memory not the case either)...

 

[Costes08]

Hi all!

I'm about to buy either a Wiim Pro or Ultra, and I'll connect it to my Chord Qutest that is connected to my Audia Flight FL THREE S integrated amp which powers my Dynaudio Special 40.

The USB input of the Qutest is already occupied by my Nvidia Shield, so it's either coax or toslink/optical. I'll use the Wiim mostly with Tidal Connect. Any recommendations or opinions on whether to use coax or toslink in this setup? Thanks a lot!

 

[onlyoneme]

Hi all!

I'm about to buy either a Wiim Pro or Ultra, and I'll connect it to my Chord Qutest that is connected to my Audia Flight FL THREE S integrated amp which powers my Dynaudio Special 40.

The USB input of the Qutest is already occupied by my Nvidia Shield, so it's either coax or toslink/optical. I'll use the Wiim mostly with Tidal Connect. Any recommendations or opinions on whether to use coax or toslink in this setup? Thanks a lot!

Use the one which works properly with your dac. If both are fine, I prefer toslink.

 

[hgo58]

The USB input of the Qutest is already occupied by my Nvidia Shield, so it's either coax or toslink/optical.

It should be possible to add an USB hub to have multiple USB inputs.

 

[hgo58]

I am afraid I don’t understand what you are saying…
Can you please explain it to an eight years old child?

There is some different noise introduced by the different connections but it is nothing you can hear.

 

[Costes08]

It should be possible to add an USB hub to have multiple USB inputs.

Interesting, haven't thought of that, could a USB hub potentially negatively impact signal and by extension audio quality? I've now ordered a Wiim Pro with an optical cable via same-day delivery, will set it up later today or tomorrow

 

[hgo58]

Interesting, haven't thought of that, could a USB hub potentially negatively impact signal and by extension audio quality? I've now ordered a Wiim Pro with an optical cable via same-day delivery, will set it up later today or tomorrow

As long as the USB hub don't looses packages, there will be no negative impact on the audio quality. Even a cheap hub with standard cables will work fine.

The question is if the CQ DAC can handle multiple connections.

 

[onlyoneme]

As long as the USB hub don't looses packages, there will be no negative impact on the audio quality. Even a cheap hub with standard cables will work fine.

The question is if the CQ DAC can handle multiple connections.

You would like to connect multiple masters to the one slave?

 

[EddNog]

It should be possible to add an USB hub to have multiple USB inputs.

@Costes08 to be clear, WiiM only lets you select one output at a time, so you can hook up multiple USB slaves via a hub and they'll show up as choices for output but you cannot output to two outputs at the same time, not two USBs simultaneously, not USB and S/PDIF simultaneously, etc.

If you need simultaneous outputs, your best bet may be either a USB DDC (such as a Douk US2 pro or SMSL PO100 Pro), which will take one USB output and turn it into both an RCA S/PDIF and a Toslink at the same time or alternatively buy a Toslink splitter which turns the one Toslink into multiple.

-Ed

 

[hgo58]

@Costes08 to be clear, WiiM only lets you select one output at a time, so you can hook up multiple USB slaves via a hub and they'll show up as choices for output but you cannot output to two outputs at the same time, not two USBs simultaneously, not USB and S/PDIF simultaneously, etc.

If you need simultaneous outputs, your best bet may be either a USB DDC (such as a Douk US2 pro or SMSL PO100 Pro), which will take one USB output and turn it into both an RCA S/PDIF and a Toslink at the same time or alternatively buy a Toslink splitter which turns the one Toslink into multiple.

-Ed

I don't think that is what the scenario in #71 is about?

 

[EddNog]

I don't think that is what the scenario in #71 is about?

Seems like so, but the DDC option would allow for very easy A/B flipping between coax and optical if Costes08 wanted to do so.

-Ed