Native DSD support via USB

[Devon]

I bought a Wiim Ultra for DSD files, unfortunately the files downloaded from the DLNA server are converted by Wiim Ultra to PCM 192/24. Is there any way to add full DSD support via USB output? Are there any hardware limitations of the Wiim Ultra or is it just a software issue?

 

[dtc]

Unfortunately two updates have already been made but this request has not yet been fulfilled

If I remember correctly, naive DSD over usb requires 32 bit data. I do not think the Ultra supports that, but Wiim would have to confirm that.

The Ultra only support up to 192 KHz/second, which limits DoP to DSD64. People have reported sending DSD64 files in DoP format to the Ultra and, with all processing turned off, getting the files to play. The problem is making the DoP files.

 

[Burnside]

If I remember correctly, naive DSD over usb requires 32 bit data. I do not think the Ultra supports that, but Wiim would have to confirm that.

The Ultra only support up to 192 KHz/second, which limits DoP to DSD64. People have reported sending DSD64 files in DoP format to the Ultra and, with all processing turned off, getting the files to play. The problem is making the DoP files.

The Ultra can support up to 32/192 output resolution over USB, as per its settings

 

[dtc]

The Ultra can support up to 32/192 output resolution over USB, as per its settings

The specs say 24/192 for usb output. Not sure why the discrepancy. If it does 32 bit, then that means native DSD may be possible at least up to DSD128.

 

[seiger30]

We don't need a DOP conversion, but a passage without any modification of the original file; I don't think it's impossible

 

[Burnside]

The specs say 24/192 for usb output. Not sure why the discrepancy. If it does 32 bit, then that means native DSD may be possible at least up to DSD128.

Don’t recall it officially being announced in a firmware update, but it’s there:

 

[dtc]

We don't need a DOP conversion, but a passage without any modification of the original file; I don't think it's impossible

A DoP file is just a wrapper around the original data. It is sent as PCM but unpacked to the original data by the DAC. However, to use that format with the Ultra you need to convert the original to a DoP format file, which very few software packages do. But it is the only way to get DSD to play on the Ultra currently. Most DACs that support native DSD also support DoP. However, the 192 KHz sample rate limits it to DSD64.

 

[Mike in NY]

I wonder why are people using DSD at all?

Because they have a large number of SACDs? Many people have ripped their SACDs to .dsf files in order to play them over network or even portable devices. SACDs were always a niche/failed format in terms of the masses, however they are still made to this day by various record labels, for example BIS Records issues about 75 titles per year.

Boutique reissue labels such as Mobile Fidelity and Analogue Productions continue to produce SACDs in limited quantities that sell out, and that particular tape source/transfer and mastering is not available on any other format, so yes it does sound different.

no need to push it through a device that offers EQ, RC and of cause volume control.

This assumes that everyone uses a device like the WiiM Ultra with EQ, RC, and of course volume control. That is not the case at all, if it were then the unit wouldn't even allow for fixed output, or defeating EQ, RC etc... the Ultra is inexpensive enough in the grand scheme of HiFi, those features aren't the sole reason one might buy an Ultra, and it's not some huge waste of money to leave those features unused should one wish to do so.

I use the Ultra in DAC-only/fixed output mode, connected to an external USB DAC, and so do many others. While I might someday use it as a preamp with volume control, or even EQ or RC, right now thats not my use case and many others are in the same boat, we'd simply like to have DSD passthrough and that is not a ridiculous ask, nor should that be construed as resource intensive.

 

[Mike in NY]

Hence the need to pass DSD through unaltered.

Exactly, and why should that be some sort of huge ask? I'd love to hear WiiM themselves explain why this is such an unconscionable technical hurdle, maybe there is a good reason why not, but I doubt it.

I get it, members here and elsewhere are dismissive simply because they don't buy SACDs. Many others do buy SACDs, and simple DSD passthrough would be a very welcome addition for them while not burdening in any way those that don't need it.

 

[hgo58]

Exactly, and why should that be some sort of huge ask? I'd love to hear WiiM themselves explain why this is such an unconscionable technical hurdle, maybe there is a good reason why not, but I doubt it.

I get it, members here and elsewhere are dismissive simply because they don't buy SACDs. Many others do buy SACDs, and simple DSD passthrough would be a very welcome addition for them while not burdening in any way those that don't need it.

You can already play DSD files. It's just converted to PCM by the WiiM. I understand that there may be sound differences when playing the 1 bit (simpler) format compared to the 24 bits, so maybe WiiM could implement the additional USB protocol?

 

[harkpabst]

We don't need a DOP conversion, but a passage without any modification of the original file; I don't think it's impossible

Actually, "we" don't need that.

Few want it. Two upvotes for this feature request don't indicate otherwise.

 

[seiger30]

Actually, "we" don't need that.

Few want it. Two upvotes for this feature request don't indicate otherwise.

so if a person opens a ticket and you reply that the request will be taken into consideration, isn't that true?

 

[harkpabst]

so if a person opens a ticket and you reply that the request will be taken into consideration, isn't that true?

When somebody (let's call them "WiiM" for now) say that they will "consider" it, it doesn't mean that they will ever implement it.

Maybe just my lacking concept of the English language, I'm not a native speaker.

 

[reniro]

DSD64, 128 and 256 works fine. DSD512 has audio dropouts every 3 seconds - i guess the hardware is not fast enough. Native support would be great and i would love to hear a comparison if it really sounds better!

It would be awesome if the Ultra could do it because other device with that support are much more expensive ...

 

[slartibartfast]

DSD64, 128 and 256 works fine. DSD512 has audio dropouts every 3 seconds - i guess the hardware is not fast enough. Native support would be awesome and i would love to hear a comparison if it really sounds better!

It would be awesome if the Ultra could do it because other device with that support are much more expensive ...

You can use a Raspberry Pi.

 

[seiger30]

DSD64, 128 and 256 works fine. DSD512 has audio dropouts every 3 seconds - i guess the hardware is not fast enough. Native support would be awesome and i would love to hear a comparison if it really sounds better!

It would be awesome if the Ultra could do it because other device with that support are much more expensive ...

I can do it easily now with my Raspberry (Volumio), I can't believe it can't be done with the Ultra. I'll go straight to my teac ud-501 natively. I think that the people who frequent this forum are audiophiles, and that they are more interested in listening to high fidelity than in the VU-meter screen.

 

[reniro]

You can use a Raspberry Pi.

can you please explain me how to implement the Raspberry in this audio structure ? (m.2 hdd via USB on the Wiim Ultra --> active speaker via cinch) ... the Raspberry Pi into the USB Port of the Ultra ?