Need Help with Fine-Tuning Low Volume on Wiim AMP

[Mr Ee]

I'm sorry if my English didn't make that clear.

I thought it was perfectly clear
I was confused by the responses!

 

[slartibartfast]

I thought it was perfectly clear
I was confused by the responses!

That's my fault then

 

[harkpabst]

I thought it was perfectly clear
I was confused by the responses!

How did you know that the volume control on the amps owned by @cooky560 goes up to 10? May.I ask you of next week's lottery results?

I'm a little surprised, that when I spoke to you about my vintage amp with a muting function, I thought it would of be obvious, that was in reference to the vintage amp's usage scenario and how the wiim might benefit from a muting function as well, to allow people finer control over the volume.

I had just added my comment that I wouldn't want a volume setting of 3 to be shaking the walls (without a mute button) if the scale was from 0 to 100. I thought that was pretty clear, as well.

But honestly, even with an amp where the volume limit is 10 I would never want it to be massively loud at 3. That just indicates something's wrong in the gain structure. Not a real problem in your use case. I also did like the mute button like it's been working on the NAD 3020. But it's still a matter of taste if you prefer a total mute (I wouldn't) or a -20 dB setting.

I would never want to rely on that mute button in an attempt to get finer volume adjustment. That's plain wrong and potentially dangerous if other people in the house also use your gear.

 

[slartibartfast]

How did you know that the volume control on the amps owned by @cooky560 goes up to 10? May.I ask you of next week's lottery results?


I had just added my comment that I wouldn't want a volume setting of 3 to be shaking the walls (without a mute button) if the scale was from 0 to 100. I thought that was pretty clear, as well.

But honestly, even with an amp where the volume limit is 10 I would never want it to be massively loud at 3. That just indicates something's wrong in the gain structure. Not a real problem in your use case. I also did like the mute button like it's been working on the NAD 3020. But it's still a matter of taste if you prefer a total mute (I wouldn't) or a -20 dB setting.

I would never want to rely on that mute button in an attempt to get finer volume adjustment. That's plain wrong and potentially dangerous if other people in the house also use your gear.

Of course a proper amp would go to 11 not 10

 

[QuarryHunslet]

Of course a proper amp would go to 11 not 10

My RIVA Turbo X speaker has a Turbo button, which when pressed turns the volume up to 11 instead of its usual 10 maximum.

 

[canard]

the return if an easy "direct" access,( if it is to delve into the menu it is no longer of much interest in my opinion) to a mute like -20db, a variable loudness in the manner of the old yam, see a simple "intelligent" bass and treble settings in the old way could be useful...
see a suggestion of "type" presets according to some typical speaker sensitivities,a bit like the output level adjustment of their streamers...
a proposal for different gains could be encountered on old machines

 

[harkpabst]

Of course a proper amp would go to 11 not 10

Close, but no cigar.

A proper amp goes to 21, of course.

 

[QuarryHunslet]

Close, but no cigar.
View attachment 12867
A proper amp goes to 21, of course.

I have the older Quad 44 with yellow input buttons, and red tape monitor buttons, and surprisingly my volume control goes from 1 to 22.
Sound can still be heard at the lowest volume setting no 1.

 

[canard]

Close, but no cigar.
View attachment 12867
A proper amp goes to 21, of course.

Now the resistances attenuators are democratized in 48 positions...very practical...

 

[harkpabst]

I have the older Quad 44 with yellow input buttons, and red tape monitor buttons, and surprisingly my volume control goes from 1 to 22.
Sound can still be heard at the lowest volume setting no 1.

Funny. I have two different Quad 34, both grey buttons, one white logo and a later one with the orange logo. On both the scale goes up to 21 and the zero position (although there's no number printed on the facia) is available and absolutely silent.

Different animals, obviously (with the 44 being the much more expensive design). Linearity and channel balance is most excellent with both, the 34 and the 44. The balance pot is crap, though and unavailable since ages.

Now the resistances attenuators are democratized in 48 positions...very practical...

But still lacking compared to the number of steps available with digital volume control.

 

[canard]

Funny. I have two different Quad 34, both grey buttons, one white logo and a later one with the orange logo. On both the scale goes up to 21 and the zero position (although there's no number printed on the facia) is available and absolutely silent.

Different animals, obviously (with the 44 being the much more expensive design). Linearity and channel balance is most excellent with both, the 34 and the 44. The balance pot is crap, though and unavailable since ages.


But still lacking compared to the number of steps available with digital volume control.

will stay away from the pleasure of a good attenuator or even some good hdg potentiometers
(see a num but driven by a nice-looking rotary button with display)

 

[cooky560]

But honestly, even with an amp where the volume limit is 10 I would never want it to be massively loud at 3.

Trust me there’s nothing wrong with it’s gain it’s plenty louder at 9 (closer to my local cinema volume).

3 is loud enough to shake the windows and that’s enough for regular listening. I leave it set to 3 permanently and press “muting” if I need to have people over as it makes conversation easier, and would indeed allow for finer control in quiet scenarios where otherwise you’d be stuck between 0 and 2 (or 1 for very low levels) for your choice.

That amp is design for 0.2v inputs so even the 0.5v option on the WiiM pro plus is probably louder than it should be. However I prefer the sound with the WiiM at 0.5 and the amp 3 rather than the WiiM at 0.2 and the amp at 3.7 - 4


This comes back to topic as it would be nice to have such a -20db toggle on my WiiM amp for when it’s needed

 

[cooky560]

Not a real problem in your use case

I don’t have neighbors within a realistic distance for volume to be a concern

 

[harkpabst]

That amp is design for 0.2v inputs so even the 0.5v option on the WiiM pro plus is probably louder than it should be. However I prefer the sound with the WiiM at 0.5 and the amp 3 rather than the WiiM at 0.2 and the amp at 3.7 - 4

That's exactly what I call a problem with gain structure. And I bet that in 9 out of 10 cases people hear their integrated amplifier starting to sound congested, just because they have to turn up the volume.

Not in your case of course, you carefully listened and should definitely stick with whatever you liked better.

Logarithmic impedance pots are very common with analogue volume control, because that somewhat matches our perception of loudness. But I cannot help thinking that they went over the top when 0.5 Vrms input at volume setting 3 equals the loudness you get from 0.2 Vrms at a volume setting 3.7. The difference in SPL at the same volume setting is a whopping 8 dB between 0.2 V and 0.5 V input!

Your case as the man who never touches volume control remains a special one,.I think. It's not comparable to those seeking higher resolution in volume control. WiiM's volume control is very granular already (at least using the 1 step increments or decrements from within the WiiM Home App. If that doesn't work as.expected there is usually a technical problem that needs solving, first (like e.g. too high input or output voltage).

 

[cooky560]

That's exactly what I call a problem with gain structure. And I bet that in 9 out of 10 cases people hear their integrated amplifier starting to sound congested, just because they have to turn up the volume.

Not in your case of course, you carefully listened and should definitely stick with whatever you liked better.

Logarithmic impedance pots are very common with analogue volume control, because that somewhat matches our perception of loudness. But I cannot help thinking that they went over the top when 0.5 Vrms input at volume setting 3 equals the loudness you get from 0.2 Vrms at a volume setting 3.7. The difference in SPL at the same volume setting is a whopping 8 dB between 0.2 V and 0.5 V input!

Your case as the man who never touches volume control remains a special one,.I think. It's not comparable to those seeking higher resolution in volume control. WiiM's volume control is very granular already (at least using the 1 step increments or decrements from within the WiiM Home App. If that doesn't work as.expected there is usually a technical problem that needs solving, first (like e.g. too high input or output voltage).

I actually an interesting experiment last night, set the volume to 10, disconnected the jumper connecting the pre out and power in jacks, and connected the pro plus directly to the "Power in" jack.

With the WiiM at about 30% it sounded very similar in terms of volume, but the WiiM sounds a little cleaner than using the rca -> internal pre-amp -> amp path the amplifier is designed for, hardly night and day, but suggests a recap might be beneficial.

I also tried with the WiiM pro plus (at 2v output) with a 2 x 20w Sherwood S-7200 and got a very nice sound, at suprising gain levels for the power available!

 

[canard]

I actually an interesting experiment last night, set the volume to 10, disconnected the jumper connecting the pre out and power in jacks, and connected the pro plus directly to the "Power in" jack.

With the WiiM at about 30% it sounded very similar in terms of volume, but the WiiM sounds a little cleaner than using the rca -> internal pre-amp -> amp path the amplifier is designed for, hardly night and day, but suggests a recap might be beneficial.

I also tried with the WiiM pro plus (at 2v output) with a 2 x 20w Sherwood S-7200 and got a very nice sound, at suprising gain levels for the power available!

.....

 

[harkpabst]

Cool. The specs in the German manual were slightly different, but not in a meaningful way:

Phono: 2.2 mV
Aux: 230 mV
Tape: 230 mV



That sheet also states a healthy 50 W of continuous power into 4 ohms.

 

[cooky560]

Fair enough! I always thought it was a 20w for some reason.

Anyway was more interested in the fate of my main amps preamp

 

[harkpabst]

Anyway was more interested in the fate of my main amps preamp

Just like me, to tell the truth.

The volume pot shouldn't make any difference when using the power in connectors. You should effectively just be using the power amp section. A very sensible approach to try, I think.

 

[cooky560]

Just like me, to tell the truth.

The volume pot shouldn't make any difference when using the power in connectors. You should effectively just be using the power amp section. A very sensible approach to try, I think.

I'm sure it doesn't I just set it to 10 as some power amps do have volume controls, and I had no idea where the pot interacted with the unit.

I might have it recapped, or I might just use it as a power amp with an ultra providing inputs