Poll: Ultra with external DAC

[vdp]

As a newcomer within Hifi, they make you believe that your amp/speakers must be of high enough quality to perceive/be transparent/to notice differences in DACs.

I don't know. Also define quality etc...

But then... besides model of DAC, should we get info on amp and speaker models etc?

Also if you say differences. I wonder if that is continuously audible or "if you listen to album Y track X min 2:54 to 2:59 you can hear a difference in..."

 

[adias]

The benefits of USB audio have been repeated many times. Would help if you actually shared which model of DAC to get a better idea!

It does not matter what I have. Perception of audio playback should be compared to one’s recollection of how live sounds sound - the decay of a piano note, the speed of a tympani note, the timing and flow of a score. Some playback components approach that better than others. Some people are not sensitive to that and then it does not matter. Is it subjective? Sure is, but I live in a subjective world.

 

[adias]

As a newcomer within Hifi, they make you believe that your amp/speakers must be of high enough quality to perceive/be transparent/to notice differences in DACs.

I don't know. Also define quality etc...

But then... besides model of DAC, should we get info on amp and speaker models etc?

Also if you say differences. I wonder if that is continuously audible or "if you listen to album Y track X min 2:54 to 2:59 you can hear a difference in..."

Sure. Any element of the chain matters, but for a given chain a given component can be compare to another.

 

[cnowacki]

Initially, I tried WiiM Ultra line out > VTV Purifi 1ET400A EVAL1. I thought it sounded very good but I was curious about how it compared to my DAC. I honestly wasn't expecting much of a difference given that both should be transparent. Typically, I find little difference between good measuring equipment. So I was surprised to find a difference when I tried WiiM Ultra USB Out > Topping E70 Velvet > VTV Purifi 1ET400A. If I had to guess, it's something to do with USB output and/or using the DAC's clock due to asynchronous USB.

 

[pieterv1]

It does not matter what I have. Perception of audio playback should be compared to one’s recollection of how live sounds sound - the decay of a piano note, the speed of a tympani note, the timing and flow of a score. Some playback components approach that better than others. Some people are not sensitive to that and then it does not matter. Is it subjective? Sure is, but I live in a subjective world.

It's exactly because of the fact that there is no definitive answer why I started this poll...

Yes "audio quality" is not just about numbers, but also how close to real-life the sound is perceived. Why not just simply answer the question and tell us with which components you achieve this?

 

[adias]

It's exactly because of the fact that there is no definitive answer why I started this poll...

Yes "audio quality" is not just about numbers, but also how close to real-life the sound is perceived. Why not just simply answer the question and tell us with which components you achieve this?

Several, but mostly R2R DACs, like Schiit Audio Yggdrasil+ OG.

 

[Smartplug]

The problem on this is that everyone is different. Some can hear some don’t. It’s also their ability to tell what have changed but since most are casual listeners they don’t know what have changed. As long music comes out even a Spotify as source or air play it’s all that matters. Casual listeners are majority.

 

[adias]

The problem on this is that everyone is different. Some can hear some don’t. It’s also their ability to tell what have changed but since most are casual listeners they don’t know what have changed. As long music comes out even a Spotify as source or air play it’s all that matters. Casual listeners are majority.

Where's the problem? Do not hear a difference keep what you have and be happy. Just do not assume others may not hear/act differently. All good!

 

[Vignus]

Using USB out to a Gustard X16 DAC, and it sounds clearly better: more

 

[Muffinman71]

I got the ultra to hopefully replace a node2i and rme combo. I noticed a big drop in enjoyment of the music.
To ‘my’ ears the ultra sounds better through either my RME (clean and precise), Mojo2 (fuller and more musical) and now going through the dac section of a marantz sa-12se CDP.
The ultra is a great bit of kit but I think I could have got similar streaming quality from a cheaper product

 

[manyung1987]

USB out to Matrix Audio X-SPDIF3 DDC,
I2S to SMSL M400 DAC, running XLR to SP400 THXAAA-888 preamp
Wiim Ultra alone cannot compare

 

[Saponetto]

USB to Topping D30Pro or Topping E50.
Internal dac works fine enough, if some differences have to be reported, maybe the D30Pro express better the infrasonic area but it's just a question of taste...
Via Topping E50 is almost the same, therefore my thought is that the internal dac just works fine enough to satisfy majority of the users.

 

[Muffinman71]

USB out to Matrix Audio X-SPDIF3 DDC,
I2S to SMSL M400 DAC, running XLR to SP400 THXAAA-888 preamp
Wiim Ultra alone cannot compare

Similar to my findings. I’d bought into the wonder product hype.
I don’t know what made me think the internal dac would be equal or better than my standalones.
But why should it, the mojo2, rme and the marantz are all significantly more expensive.

 

[poldark]

SMSL C100 (SU1) with Mark Grant coax cable, a clear improvement, albeit the Ultra alone is perfectly acceptable given the staggering VFM

 

[Zap Rekowski]

Before Setup 1, living room:
WiiM Pro ● SMSL SU-6 ● Yamaha AX-497 ● A: Heco Metas 500 ● B: Dali Spektor 6
Now, current setup:
WiiM Ultra ● Yamaha AX-497 ● A: Heco Metas 500 ● B: Dali Spektor 6

Before Setup 2, music hobby attic:
WIiM Mini ● SMSL SU-1 ● Yamaha A-S 500 ● A: Heco Metas 500 ● B: Infinity Alpha 40
Now, current setup:
WiiM Ultra ● Yamaha A-S 500 ● A: Heco Metas 500 ● B: Infinity Alpha 40

A fanless WIN11 HTPC is connected to both setups, previously connected to the DACs via USB, now via optical output to optical input to the Ultra. Furthermore, a DS200pro is connected directly to the amplifier as a backup (I hate not being able to listen to music during the update phases, which is why I stream music via BT with LDAC codec in the meantime). And of course, flat screens and Fire TVs are also integrated here.

Summary of setup 1: For me, there is no discernible difference in sound across all volume ranges and input sources.

Summary of setup 2: Similar to 1, but I think (feel) that the Ultra sounds slightly better across all volume ranges and input sources.

Tidal, Flac and mp3 are streamed from the QNAP NAS or from the HTPC (foobar server plugin). When I need a TV screen display for “what's playing” (which is pretty rare), I switch the Ultra to optical and listen directly from the HTPC using Musicbee/Tidal app, both Wasapi in exclusive mode).

I'm glad that the Ultras have now been able to take over all the tasks so well as the central interface and that the number of devices has been reduced. Totally satisfied and the feeling of having reached my goal! The “old” WiiM Pro, Minis and DACs are now doing their job in the office, conservatory and kitchen with multiroom capability.

Yes, the Minis and the Pro sounds better with external DAC but the Ultra is - in my eyes and for my setups - perfect.

 

[manyung1987]

Similar to my findings. I’d bought into the wonder product hype.
I don’t know what made me think the internal dac would be equal or better than my standalones.
But why should it, the mojo2, rme and the marantz are all significantly more expensive.

The RME has SteadyClock FS, as my external MA USB DDC serves similar function.
An accurate clock is very important for decoding audio stream
Apart of DAC chips, the resolution of audio depends on accurate clock (timing for decoding every samples) very much.
This can be easily noticeable at the articulation and air feelings in the music.
Thinking of a pianist, how can he give an amazing performance if his hands are uncontrollably shaking (jitter) ?

I don't understand some ppl here don't beleive external dac can improve and bring benefits to the audio quality.
In my language, there is an idiom "差之毫釐，失之千里"
meaning the slightest difference leads to a huge loss.
This applies in the music world.

 

[Zap Rekowski]

Thinking of a pianist, how can he give an amazing performance if his hands are uncontrollably shaking (jitter) ?

Is there really still alcohol in there?

 

[Bill Mac]

I voted other as both my Ultra and Pro are connected to external DACs. The reason for voting other is that I never compared the DACs in the WiiMs to the external DACs. The Pro is connected to a Marantz SA-KI Ruby via coaxial. The Ultra is connected to a Denafrips Pontus 15 via coaxial. I wanted to use USB but the Pontus 15 isn’t working with a USB hub.

 

[dangermouse]

Thinking of a pianist, how can he give an amazing performance if his hands are uncontrollably shaking (jitter) ?

So you can hear jitter?

Interesting.

 

[hgo58]

So you can hear jitter?

Interesting.

I think people are confusing analog jitter as you can have in a tape recorder with the jitter in digital audio that is high frequency noise due to unstable clocks.