Poll: Ultra with external DAC

[dangermouse]

I'm with Ethan Winer on this. I've always been of the opinion that digital jitter is something that audiophiles fret over needlessly.

Audio Electronics: Is Digital Jitter Really a Problem?

Since the dawn of the digital era decades ago, the timing error known as "jitter" in A/D/A converters has been accused of harming audio fidelity. Some people claim that jitter adds audible distortion and noise, affects bass fullness, and even harms stereo imaging width and depth. This article...

audioxpress.com

 

[manyung1987]

Jitter will affect the accuracy of decoding of each sample based on the time domain from the audio stream.
Don’t mix up high frequency noise due to other reasons.

Mostly affect the resolution of the music.
And specially noticeable at the articulation and air feelings, as I said before.

I can only congratulate if someone cannot hear and compare the difference, this can actually save a lot of money for him.

 

[Dazza]

Out of curiosity as I have yet to receive mine

Hopefully this will help other Ultra users as well:
- determining wether or not they could benefit from an external DAC
- deciding what would be a good upgrade path for them personally

Using a SMSL SU-9 Ultra with my WiiM Ultra. Using the USB out from the WiiM into the SMSL so the clocking can be done via the SMSL rather than the WiiM. There's a significant improvement over the WiiM used on its own. The SMSL has a significantly better DAC circuit and, possibly even more important, a FAR better clocking circuit.

 

[Smartplug]

Many users pay to much attention on technical detail when their ear are not measuring device that they can hear in blind test. Just turn on the device and enjoy the music.

 

[Valentino]

Using a SMSL SU-9 Ultra with my WiiM Ultra. Using the USB out from the WiiM into the SMSL so the clocking can be done via the SMSL rather than the WiiM. There's a significant improvement over the WiiM used on its own. The SMSL has a significantly better DAC circuit and, possibly even more important, a FAR better clocking circuit.

Do you know how they measure in comparison? I cannot find any data on this version of the SMSL.

(My speaker system needs 8 DAC channels, and the way my MiniDSP Flex Eight handles 24/96 optical input does not have any artifacts one can hear. Luckily one can hear what it does to the received signal.
I use the Ultra Ultra line out to feed my headphone amp.)

 

[Muffinman71]

Many users pay to much attention on technical detail when their ear are not measuring device that they can hear in blind test. Just turn on the device and enjoy the music.

But then why even buy an Ultra? Surely a couple of £30 items cobbled together will be just as good.

I’m being facetious, but it’s a valid point

 

[castalla]

But then why even buy an Ultra? Surely a couple of £30 items cobbled together will be just as good.

I’m being facetious, but it’s a valid point

But you're forgetting the power supply, the cabling, the shelving, etc..... All will determine what you hear. Don't waste hours of possible upgrading and reconfiguring. What's music got to do with it? (as Tina almost sang,) once)

 

[Mr Ee]

What's music got to do with it? (as Tina almost sang,) once)

Made me laugh, especially as 'Tina' was my immediate thought before I even read your next comment.

 

[Burnside]

Made me laugh, especially as 'Tina' was my immediate thought before I even read your next comment.

Who needs a DAC when a DAC can be broken?

 

[MrMan]

We don’t need another Hold skew?

 

[Zap Rekowski]

I can only congratulate if someone cannot hear and compare the difference, this can actually save a lot of money for him.

Thanks! ()

 

[Bill Mac]

Jitter will affect the accuracy of decoding of each sample based on the time domain from the audio stream.
Don’t mix up high frequency noise due to other reasons.

Please show some actual tests showing what you are referring to. From what I've read jitter in a DACs today is inaudible. That is if the DAC is designed properly and not defective. What DACs have you listened to that have issues with "accuracy of decoding of each sample based on the time domain from the audio stream"?

Mostly affect the resolution of the music.
And specially noticeable at the articulation and air feelings, as I said before.

No offense but the highlighted parts are totally audiophile "nonsense" IMO.

I can only congratulate if someone cannot hear and compare the difference, this can actually save a lot of money for him.

Why thank you! I have what would be considered a good system and have never heard any issues caused by jitter when listening to music. Although I'm not sure I've ever heard "the articulation and air feelings" when listening to music on my systems.

 

[canard]

Please show some actual tests showing what you are referring to. From what I've read jitter in a DACs today is inaudible. That is if the DAC is designed properly and not defective. What DACs have you listened to that have issues with "accuracy of decoding of each sample based on the time domain from the audio stream"?

No offense but the highlighted parts are totally audiophile "nonsense" IMO.

Why thank you! I have what would be considered a good system and have never heard any issues caused by jitter when listening to music. Although I'm not sure I've ever heard "the articulation and air feelings" when listening to music on my systems.

What types of music do you mainly listen to?

 

[Bill Mac]

What types of music do you mainly listen to?

I listen to a lot of jazz (60's era), classic rock and blues. What does the type of music one listens to have to do with any issues with jitter?

 

[Zap Rekowski]

Why thank you! I have what would be considered a good system and have never heard any issues caused by jitter when listening to music. Although I'm not sure I've ever heard "the articulation and air feelings" when listening to music on my systems.

...me neither

But for me it makes no sense to discuss this any further with him, who knows what will come next. The “disappearing curtains in front of the loudspeakers” etc. etc. etc.

As you can see from my profile picture, I don't even have ears, so how am I supposed to win?

 

[Muffinman71]

I listen to a lot of jazz (60's era), classic rock and blues. What does the type of music one listens to have to do with any issues with jitter?

The Jitterbug?

 

[Muffinman71]

I’m enjoying this thread and it’s inevitable decent into toxicity.
As lockdown was announced, our local Sevenoaks had a closing down sale. They had a pair of audioquest water & earth interconnects. The rrp of these was £600 and £1000. I bought them both for £600 (out of curiosity more than anything).
I found the the £600 sounded better than the £1000 pair and neither of them sounded better than the £150 set I already had.
I sold them on and have not looked back.
They were just wires.
And they sounded different.
Price had not made them better.
I currently have kimber 8vs speaker cables which I’m not convinced are any better than the 12gauge speaker wire I bought from Amazon basics.
However, I am certain that the external DACs I use are a clear, noticeable improvement on the internal.

 

[Zap Rekowski]

I don't want to deny that the integration of an external DAC can bring about sonic improvements.
In my opinion, the SMSL SU-1/SU-6 did not achieve this in comparison in my setups. On the contrary, the more listening sessions I've done now, the happier I am with the Ultras. Pleasant sound, especially at night when I listen a little quieter than usual (so as not to get on my wife's nerves).
A further integration of an external DAC would have to bring considerable, perceptible advantages, which I don't see at the moment. Maybe when I retire and am ready to spend a part of my savings on this hobby. But then it wouldn't be done with just a DAC

 

[onlyoneme]

Jitter will affect the accuracy of decoding of each sample based on the time domain from the audio stream.
Don’t mix up high frequency noise due to other reasons.

Mostly affect the resolution of the music.
And specially noticeable at the articulation and air feelings, as I said before.

I can only congratulate if someone cannot hear and compare the difference, this can actually save a lot of money for him.

What's the minimum jitter in time units which is still audible for you?

 

[dangermouse]

Too much audiophoolery going on here.

(imho, of course).