Qobuz & Wiim Pro and Mini

[Patricia P]

@onlyoneme dont you get it - @Achim1811 loves a good pun, and in his second language too! If we were ready to be guided by the social media influencers we would have bought the latest £££ streamer, and wouldnt be here.

 

[onlyoneme]

I don't care. I'm untrained and average listener, I'm fine with that. I would be also fine with excrement lovers who prefer to have an emotional relation to such things. I just see a difference between biased and unbiased judgements and I treat them differently.
If something measures very bad it won't sound good even if it sounds pleasant for someone, as I expect high fidelity first when talking about an audio equipment.

 

[steadyshot]

It's not the ASR mentality. Existence of anything is based on the proof of being detected or measured if you prefer such word. That's the contradiction to beliefs.

What about matter in the universe ? Can we measure it all currently?

 

[Patricia P]

What about matter in the universe ? Can we measure it all currently?

The answer is 42, what was the question again?

 

[onlyoneme]

What about matter in the universe ? Can we measure it all currently?

No point to continue such discussion. Existence of matter itself in unrelated to the proven or unproven existence of every particle we can imagine as being a part of the whole matter.

 

[Maurizio]

@Maurizio, my Italian friend.
Everything affects everything. For the moment I do not know if it was Mao, Konfuzius or me who said this first.
Of course a DAC has an impact on the sound signature. By the way, makes a steerable sound signature bit-perfect not obsolete? I have to think about....
You know that in my personal universe (the one and only universe where I can see me as the centre) the order is different. In that moment I are absolute happy and satisfied with my stereo I certainly have a look if I can better the sound with another DAC. Very often I got the impression people think that a DAC can bring a remarkable higher level. So, you and every other who read my posts during the last weeks know how I think. In the very moment one owns a decent enough stereo he or she could look at DACs. If that is ok then he or she should go for cables. But, as you and I and many others know: Once in that rabbit hole there is no way out. Or you must own a bassotto who shows you a way out.
Never stop seeking!

@Achim1811
Ha,ha,really you are the best . Mao? Confucio? Who are they? I only know Achim the wise. Of course I'm kidding. Talking seriously. I agree, FIRST you have to fix the devices of the main chain . Only then you can think about the rest. Can a DAC "bring a remarkable higher level"? No, but it can make it all sound different.
N. B. Just different, neither better nor worse.
By the way, I am absolutely in love with my vintage combo. It has the charm of an old lady
Do I stand at the window to see if a younger woman I like better passes by? Of course yes

 

[Maurizio]

I agree that current measurement methodology is insufficient to capture all sonic differences. And because in the end we have to live with the equipment I prefer to like what I hear!

Me too I believe in my ears, not measurements

 

[onlyoneme]

Me too I believe in my ears, not measurements

Measurements and the scientific approach in general tell something about things that our ears cannot detect. Do you negate everything your personal senses didn't experience so far?

 

[onlyoneme]

If a proper measurement says that a device has high level of odd, uneven harmonics, that's a fact. It can be negligible or even favorable, but these distortions exist.

It's like negating being seriously sick just because of good feeling...

 

[steadyshot]

I like measurements and objectivity . I like someone to keep reigns to the companies .I like also a more humble approach because it is clear that there are things that can not be currently measured and we should trust our ears

 

[onlyoneme]

Plenty of companies do what they do because there are people around who believe that these companies do their best in terms of quality and involved expertise level, apart of the fact that in most cases it's just for money. And this is the approach which lets such companies exist and earn tremendous money - the believers.

 

[onlyoneme]

I will stay that it is never ever the right way to combine only by measurement. It is different with headphones and speakers where frequency response can point you to the direction you want. But even this is absolutely impossible way for every listening situation. Nothing can replace testing in your environment with your existing gear. Would be difficult with no helpful, serious and potent dealer, I know.

Correct then your room acoustic successfully without a proper gear and measurements, just with your ears. Good luck.
Ignorance can irritate sometimes.

 

[onlyoneme]

For me there is a post in memory which more or less read "not listenable, but you can measure". So, who cares? What can happen?

And as I said, sum of nonaudible but measurable issues can result in something perfectly audible.

 

[d6jg]

In my experience only politicians cause more argument than audiophiles.

 

[onlyoneme]

0 + 0 = 1 ??
And that's it. You said

0.6 + 0.6 = 1.2
It's not binary.

 

[bradavon]

Qobuz's IOS and Android support pages both say:

in 24-bit at 96 kHz in most cases and up to 24-bit at 192 kHz on some devices

So I asked Qobuz if you can really get 24/192 over Chromecast, because we know you can't, and at first I got a stock response:

You can find the list of Qobuz-integrated and compatible brands on our website (in the Our Partners section, https://www.qobuz.com/gb-en/discover/apps-partners). If your device does not appear on this list, it is not integrated or compatible with Qobuz. This does not however mean you can’t still use Qobuz with your device.

That didn't answer my question on Chromecast so I went back to them and their response is interesting:

I have checked with our technical department and it looks like the statement up to 192KHZ is a statement from Chromecast that we have adopted. But we have noticed problems and actually 192KHZ is therefore reduced to 96KHZ. Our engineers believe that the Chromecast protocol as provided cannot reliably support 192KHZ. We know that in the past we had customers listening with Wiim Pro with Chromecast in 192KHZ but since the latest Chromecast issues it will now be 96 kHz too. Since we are still talking to Chromecast and working on a update ourselves we are still using the phrasing from Chromecast on our website. If it really turns out to be no longer possible to get 192KHZ via Chromecast, we will adjust this information.

Seems like they got the 192Khz support from Google but when Qobuz engineers are locking it to 96Khz, it is cheeky to still be making this claim. They only fessed up when I sent this link to them:

https://audiophilestyle.com/forums/...qobuz-issues-thread/page/192/#comment-1223331

Seems like Qobuz are saying something on their support pages they know to be false, under the guise "technically" it's possible. Even if actually it isn't because Qobuz resamples 24/192 to 24/96 over Chromecast.

I then asked if 24/192 is getting resampled to 96Khz or 48Khz and they said:

1. The tracks will be 96Khz not 48Khz. So far we have no issues with Chromecast and 96Khz.
2. We have only the update that we are further in the development. The first test have not started yet but the team hopes for a release until end of this year. Sadly there are no further details yet. We can't wait for the connect app and to be finally not depending on other services anymore.

Question 2 was me asking for an update on their Qobuz Connect platform.

 

[Brantome]

Yeah, that audiophilestyle link was my query responded to by a Qobuz employee. They’re factually incorrect about WiiM Pro customers getting 24/192 over ChromeCast from their app if that’s what they’re saying - again, I was one of the first to get my hands on a beta Pro which prompted that particular query.

 

[bradavon]

Oh yeah I missed that's your question in the thread. Good job managing to get a response from Qobuz.

Qobuz shouldn't be stating "up to 24-bit at 192 kHz on some devices" in official support pages when they know that's never the case, just because Google told them Chromecast supports 24/192.

I assume that was an internal discussion too because Google never stated this publicly.

I also had to press them for an answer. Their first reply was a stock answer about 24/192 support in general and made no mention of Chromecast. Despite my question only being about Chromecast.

Not sure I believe they've got an active conversation with Google around 24/192 over Chromecast but their response says they're still speaking to Google about it. So fair enough.

It seems clear they publicly want to be vague though, as many customers well just assume they're getting 24/192.

Reading their response again I'm unsure if 24/192 is being resampled to 24/96 or Qobuz serves a 24/96 version.

I'd actually be happy with 24/96. Most tracks aren't 24/192 and I'm not sure I could tell that high up the bitrate chain. The higher up you get the more nuanced the difference seems to be.

 

[onlyoneme]

Well, it's quite easy to have a 192 kHz with Qobuz - just use LMS.

 

[bradavon]

Well, it's quite easy to have a 192 kHz with Qobuz - just use LMS.

LMS?

Personally I wouldn't want to use Bubble UPnP. I've used DLNA to stream video from my PC to TV so know about it and it does look great, but for mainstream usage I'd just want to cast from a mobile apps. Really the official app.