Query - PEQ for Wiim Amp and Monitor Audio Bronze 100

[Vicious]

Howdy!

Recently swapped my Polk XT15's for the Monitor Audio Bronze 100's, got them for a great price.

These are paired up with a Polk PSW10 10" sub, that's at 60% volume, and on my Wiim Amp set to -3db's, some of the bass is coming from the MA 100's.

The Room Correction is giving me rather thin PEQ's, that don't sound full - As a result, I kept the EQ on flat for now which feels and sounds like the best for now on the current kit I have.

I'm trying to find a PEQ for the Wiim Amp and MA Bronze 100's, but can't find anything, and hoped someone here has a basic PEQ to start off with, bands that I can maybe start with as a baseline?

Thanks

 

[harkpabst]

I'm trying to find a PEQ for the Wiim Amp and MA Bronze 100's, but can't find anything, and hoped someone here has a basic PEQ to start off with, bands that I can maybe start with as a baseline?

This is pretty much impossible.

The Amp itself is tonally transparent and doesn't need EQ. The speakers may or may not benefit from specific EQ. It probably would, but spinorama.org has no data about the Bronze 100, yet, so you would have to do your own (quasi-anechoic) measurements. The room still has the biggest influence and this is different for every single room and every speaker placement.

On top of that, you are using a sub, so it's not just about a base EQ for your mains.

The Room Correction is giving me rather thin PEQ's, that don't sound full - As a result, I kept the EQ on flat for now which feels and sounds like the best for now on the current kit I have.

So, automatic RC gives you a thinner overall sound than no EQ at all?

Can you post your set of settings for the room correction runs? Which microphone and phone are you using?

 

[Vicious]

This is pretty much impossible.

The Amp itself is finally transparent and doesn't need EQ. The speakers may or may not benefit from specific EQ. It probably would, but spinorama.org has no data about the Bronze 100, yet, so you would have to do your own (quasi-anechoic) measurements. The room still has the biggest influence and this is different for every single room and every speaker placement.

On top of that, you are using a sub, so it's not just about a base EQ for your mains.


So, automatic RC gives you a thinner overall sound than no EQ at all?

Can you post your set of settings for the room correction runs? Which microphone and phone are you using?

Ah fully understand

I’ve been using my iPhone without its case.

I’m not home at the moment so i’ll do another run later and share my RC results, seems i’ve saved over my previous run

Side question before running RC, because the MA Bronze 100’s go quite low, does that mean the crossover at 70-80 is ideal, or is it best to stick to the norm of 80?

 

[Vicious]

Ah fully understand

I’ve been using my iPhone without its case.

I’m not home at the moment so i’ll do another run later and share my RC results, seems i’ve saved over my previous run

Side question before running RC, because the MA Bronze 100’s go quite low, does that mean the crossover at 70-80 is ideal, or is it best to stick to the norm of 80?

 

[harkpabst]

Side question before running RC, because the MA Bronze 100’s go quite low, does that mean the crossover at 70-80 is ideal, or is it best to stick to the norm of 80?

The Bronze 100 may go low for their size (honestly, I don't know), but this shouldn't be your first concern when integrating them with your sub.

There is still a school of thought myth that for music main speakers must play full range and the subwoofer should just "augment" below their "natural" roll-off. If this works for anybody (and it can, by chance), then fine, but this is crap, nonetheless. The Bronze 100 are still relatively compact 2-way speakers and the benefit of a properly managed sub is not just to add lower bass (some are really just seeking for louder bass). The sub can also relieve the main speakers (and amplifier) from excessive cone excursion (and power demands). In particular for 2-way or full range speakers, reducing cone excursion is essential for reducing distortion and improving midrange clarity. This only works if the main speakers can be properly high pass filtered. The WiiM Amp, Amp Pro, Ultra and upcoming Amp Ultra can do just that.

To maximise the benefits from this approach you would want to cross the sub as high as possible. Obviously, there are limits to this approach. Many subwoofers don't play well (by design) above 100 Hz, very few are usable up to 200 Hz. Also, the (single) sub may become acoustically localisable when playing higher than ~80 Hz, depending on the steepness of the low pass filter. In my personal experience you can get away with a single subwoofer crossed at ~115 Hz if it can be placed fully symmetrically between the main speakers. If the sub is sitting somewhere in the corner it's better left at ~80 Hz, or maybe a tad lower.

The next thing to consider is that choosing the best crossover frequency and room placement for the sub can help to reduce room effects. However, to make use of that you really need to do measurements that go deeper into the details than just what the WiiM Home app offers.

 

[harkpabst]

View attachment 22219

This actually looks pretty good to me.

If you perceive the result as thin sounding, maybe you would simply prefer changing the target curve from B&K to Harman?

 

[Gerry_Tang]

The sub can also relieve the main speakers (and amplifier) from excessive cone excursion (and power demands).

.. I'm sorry but in a well designed loudspeaker and amp there is no such thing; but still i do not allow myself to say that you belong to a school of myth

 

[Vicious]

This actually looks pretty good to me.

If you perceive the result as thin sounding, maybe you would simply prefer changing the target curve from B&K to Harman?

Current testing limits - B&K
Will test the Harman shortly

 

[harkpabst]

.. I'm sorry but in a well designed loudspeaker and amp there is no such thing; but still i do not allow myself to say that you belong to a school of myth

To continue this discussion and from an engineering point of view I fullhartedly disagree.

There is no speaker - no matter how well designed - that works the same, independent of woofer excursion. That's physics. You cannot change it.

Furthermore all speakers - no matter how well designed - work better when they don't have to cover the frequency range around their natural resonant frequency. No developer in his/her right mind would ever use a tweeter or midrange down to its resonant frequency for good reason. The woofer is the only speaker where this compromise is unfortunately unavoidable. Running both, the sub and the main speaker, down to that point is not smart, to say the least.

Everything else is a myth. Uneducated high-end fairytales. Internet babble. BS.

 

[harkpabst]

Current testing limits - B&K
Will test the Harman shortly

View attachment 22225

Your next best candidate (if the results still don't please you) would be trying the MMM beta.

 

[Gerry_Tang]

To continue this discussion and from an engineering point of view I fullhartedly disagree.

There is no speaker - no matter how well designed - that works the same, independent of woofer excursion. That's physics. You cannot change it.

Furthermore all speakers - no matter how well designed - work better when they don't have to cover the frequency range around their natural resonant frequency. No developer in his/her right mind would ever use a tweeter or midrange down to its resonant frequency for good reason. The woofer is the only speaker where this compromise is unfortunately unavoidable. Running both, the sub and the main speaker down to that point is not smart, to say the least.

Everything else is a myth. Uneducated high-end fairytales. Internet babble. BS.

Ok as you wish, no problem

 

[Vicious]

Right, B&K again, but moved 1m back and bumped the amp from 60% to 80% volume.

Had earplugs in haha, that sharp sound would destroy my ears

Crossover 75hz, 0db gain on the sub

 

[harkpabst]

Right, B&K again, but moved 1m back and bumped the amp from 60% to 80% volume.

Had earplugs in haha, that sharp sound would destroy my ears

Crossover 75hz, 0db gain on the sub

The previous run did look better to me.

Cannot judge what you are hearing, of course.

 

[Vicious]

The previous run did look better to me.

Cannot judge what you are hearing, of course.

You're right, it does - 80Hz on B&K

 

[Vicious]

Hah!
Couldn't understand why everything after doing the RC kept sounding boomy, I eventually dropped the Sub to -4db's. But it still didn't have those clear drum hits, it sounded off.

Clearing my desk this morning, I noticed both loudspeakers port plugs popped out - I'm guessing from the RC tests at high volume? So grabbed 2 pairs of socks and plugged them, and I have a cleaner sound again... but am I just thinking it's cleaner? I read that if you have a sub and crossover set, plugging your speaker ports will give them a cleaner sound and make them sound less boomy. I don't know, placebo maybe? Maybe there's actually reasoning behind why it sounded too boomy without the port foam plugs

 

[HansD-NL]

Aha, a desk setup with close boundaries (corners maybe) is often a "good" recipe for boomy overpowering bass and I think you can see that effect clearly in your measurements meaning the massive cut at 60 en 200Hz that RC is wanting to correct.

 

[Vicious]

Got some separation going and printed speaker stands to lift them 4-5cm