Room Correction Beta firmware for WiiM Pro, Pro Plus and Amp - User Testing Experience

[rsc1]

Thanks @WiiM Team for the regular updates. It's fun to be a part of this process, I'm excited for the product to get even better than it already is.

Am I the only one that thinks the app should take multiple measurements/sweeps and average them out? Like 3 or 5 at least. I seem to get slightly different results every time I measure. It would give me more peace of mind if I knew the measurements were averaged out over multiple sweeps. Idk, maybe it's just my OCD.

 

[BoilerCS]

Not OCD, I agree. Dirac (which I’ve used with very good results) averages anywhere from 9 to 13 sweeps depending on how narrow or wide a listening area you’re trying to correct and it’s nice to see so much data going into the final curve. Definitely reassuring to know a random spike or dip is consistent and not a freak occurrence that messes up your whole correction.

And I agree, it’s nice to be part of this process!

 

[Giro413]

I have now performed RC on my Wiim Pro Plus in various positions in my listening room (living room) and listened closely, switching it on and off. Each time I have RC on I get a (smaller or larger degree of a) less defined and more muffled sound, especially audible on vocals. Maybe I just like my sound as is with no RC or EQ too much, or I have grown accustomed to it. In any case, in its current form I do not think that Wiim's RC does my system or room any benefits. I too enjoy being a part of this journey, but I will be holding off with any more RC tests until changes are made to the algorithm or process (at which point I will of course be all over it again ).

 

[Steve Woodhouse]

I have now performed RC on my Wiim Pro Plus in various positions in my listening room (living room) and listened closely, switching it on and off. Each time I have RC on I get a (smaller or larger degree of a) less defined and more muffled sound, especially audible on vocals. Maybe I just like my sound as is with no RC or EQ too much, or I have grown accustomed to it. In any case, in its current form I do not think that Wiim's RC does my system or room any benefits. I too enjoy being a part of this journey, but I will be holding off with any more RC tests until changes are made to the algorithm or process (at which point I will of course be all over it again ).

There’s a strong argument for only EQ-ing below the Schroeder Frequency - there are calculators online to find what your room’s is.

So run EQ, write down the EQ the WiiM has calculated at or below that, then turn room correction off and just input the EQ for lower frequencies.

 

[steadyshot]

I have now performed RC on my Wiim Pro Plus in various positions in my listening room (living room) and listened closely, switching it on and off. Each time I have RC on I get a (smaller or larger degree of a) less defined and more muffled sound, especially audible on vocals. Maybe I just like my sound as is with no RC or EQ too much, or I have grown accustomed to it. In any case, in its current form I do not think that Wiim's RC does my system or room any benefits. I too enjoy being a part of this journey, but I will be holding off with any more RC tests until changes are made to the algorithm or process (at which point I will of course be all over it again ).

If you performed an in room response measurement and more or less your uncorrected curve follows B&K or Harman in a boundary between +-3db you do not need eq and if you do you need to apply only to taste . For instance I changed the mixture to a more bassy one by applying a high shelf filter with very wide q=1 and -2db in order to avoid audible phase distortion . That made my sound better because I can turn the volume really high and still the sound is relaxed and full and still very clean.

Do not over EQ!

Usually problems lie in the low frequency region such as resonances or room modes. There you should correct with accuracy and higher q, but still the corrected curve should follow a downward slope of more or less -10 to -12db from 20hz to 20khz. Starting of course from the natural bass response of your speakers...

 

[WiiM Support]

@WiiM Support @WiiM Team Can you please look at the latest beta room correction as it made sound tiny by cutting the bass and boost treble? Many also reported the same thing. The first beta was good the inverse measurements sound good.

Hi Smartplug, Team

I'm currently consulting with our team about the changes to the algorithm. One adjustment I'm aware of is the reduction in the gain adjustment range, which has helped minimize the dips in the bass and treble ranges. It seems that it doesn't work well for you. I'll gather all the details and update you soon.

 

[Wiimer]

Thanks @WiiM Team for the regular updates. It's fun to be a part of this process, I'm excited for the product to get even better than it already is.

Am I the only one that thinks the app should take multiple measurements/sweeps and average them out? Like 3 or 5 at least. I seem to get slightly different results every time I measure. It would give me more peace of mind if I knew the measurements were averaged out over multiple sweeps. Idk, maybe it's just my OCD.

I agree with you too.

And if WiiM allows the use of sweep sound source files, I think it will be possible as a result. I want to use the test files I have.

 

[Giro413]

If you performed an in room response measurement and more or less your uncorrected curve follows B&K or Harman in a boundary between +-3db you do not need eq and if you do you need to apply only to taste . For instance I changed the mixture to a more bassy one by applying a high shelf filter with very wide q=1 and -2db in order to avoid audible phase distortion . That made my sound better because I can turn the volume really high and still the sound is relaxed and full and still very clean.

Do not over EQ!

Usually problems lie in the low frequency region such as resonances or room modes. There you should correct with accuracy and higher q, but still the corrected curve should follow a downward slope of more or less -10 to -12db from 20hz to 20khz. Starting of course from the natural bass response of your speakers...

These are the results of the latest RC from my listening position. Result is a muffled deep sound.

 

[steadyshot]

These are the results of the latest RC from my listening position. Result is a muffled deep sound.

To be honest the corrected wiim response looks logical but again it should not correct so aggressively in order for the curve to lie exactly on the downward line. On the other hand the measured is not looking good at all. I don't know if it is your system-speakers and/or the placement or even the measurement of wiim. I have noticed that wiim makes the measurment at higher amplitude than housecurve. You have to search for the predicted in room response of your speakers and compare it to your measurement. If it is vastly different it is your space or/and wrong measurement if it matches then it is your speakers... but you should compare at the same scale.

 

[Steve Woodhouse]

These are the results of the latest RC from my listening position. Result is a muffled deep sound.

Lots of bass loss between 150Hz and 500Hz. If you have a sub, consider experimenting with placement.

With or without a sub, maybe try moving your speakers closer to the front wall.

Run again, see if it helps.

 

[harkpabst]

These are the results of the latest RC from my listening position. Result is a muffled deep sound.

Predicted FR looks really good, but I doubt it reflects the reality.

Again, the problem is with the measurement being far off. There is just no way your speakers' in-room response would develop a +10 dB peak between 5 and 10 kHz.

Mic calibration could be way off. If correcting about the Schroedinger frequency at all, I wish WiiM would at least measure one channel after the other, not simultaneously. This can lead to wrong results as well.

 

[harkpabst]

Lots of bass loss between 150Hz and 500Hz. If you have a sub, consider experimenting with placement.

With or without a sub, maybe try moving your speakers closer to the front wall.

Run again, see if it helps.

Shouldn't RC actually take care of bass's overshoot?

Moving the speakers after performing RC doesn't make sense. In the first place I think I see way too much bass in that measurement, I must admit.

 

[Steve Woodhouse]

Shouldn't RC actually take care of bass's overshoot?

Moving the speakers after performing RC doesn't make sense. In the first place I think I see way too much bass in that measurement, I must admit.

I mean moving the sub or speakers and starting again, rather than as a form of correction post-measurement.

 

[harkpabst]

I mean moving the sub or speakers and starting again, rather than as a form of correction post-measurement.

That's what I had thought in the first place, but then again sentence 1 applies:

Shouldn't RC actually take care of bass overshoot?
(Edited to remove the genitive s that autocorrect had thrown in.)

 

[Steve Woodhouse]

That's what I had thought in the first place, but then again sentence 1 applies:

Shouldn't RC actually take care of bass overshoot?
(Edited to remove the genitive s that autocorrect had thrown in.)

Yes, though I think the amount of correction applied is probably limited/capped. In any case, getting the sound as close to flat as possible before starting the room correction process in the WiiM is probably not a bad idea.

I think doing a dry run with WiiM’s RC (or HouseCurve or REW) first, just to get an idea of what’s going on and what the issues are, is a great starting point though.

So:

1 - Run measurement to see what’s going on
2 - Move sub and speakers to see if this can help
3 - Repeat and experiment
4 - Once you’ve exhausted the above, run RC, and either accept WiiMs correction, or copy the suggestions, input manually, and (again) experiment.
5 - During ‘4’ re-measure using HouseCurve or REW to see what’s working.

 

[slartibartfast]

I haven't been using the beta firmware but I will probably apply if it is still open. The current PEQ settings with 4 filters allows +/-12dB adjustment, has it really been reduced to +/-6dB? Some of my filters are using more than that at the moment. I noticed everyone seems to aiming for a downward sloping target, isn't that likely to sound muddy? Flat doesn't sound bright in my room. Having said that I am certainty no expert in Room Correction

 

[Steve Woodhouse]

I haven't been using the beta firmware but I will probably apply if it is still open. The current PEQ settings with 4 filters allows +/-12dB adjustment, has it really been reduced to +/-6dB? Some of my filters are using more than that at the moment. I noticed everyone seems to aiming for a downward sloping target, isn't that likely to sound muddy? Flat doesn't sound bright in my room. Having said that I am certainty no expert in Room Correction

How big is your room and how far do you sit from your speakers?

 

[harkpabst]

I think doing a dry run with WiiM’s RC (or HouseCurve or REW) first, just to get an idea of what’s going on and what the issues are, is a great starting point though.

I agree to this approach during the beta development. The final product should do away with that, of course.

Generally speaking I prefer to rather feed a little too much than too little bass to the RC algorithm (for various reasons).

The current PEQ settings with 4 filters allows +/-12dB adjustment, has it really been reduced to +/-6dB? Some of my filters are using more than that at the moment.

The current non-beta 10 band PEQ feature of the WiiM Amp still allows +/- 12 dB adjustments. See screenshot:



Mainly based in the works of Floyd E. Toole and Sean Olive, it has been found that a flat frequency response measured in a typical listening room is not perceived as natural and preferable. At the same time, a speaker that measures flat in an anechoic chamber will usually show the preferred response (slightly elevated bass and a slight downwards slope to the absolute highs), anyway.

PS:
This was "Toole in a quarter nutshell". Better look up his work incase you are interested.

 

[Wiimer]

This is a stack of two measurements that @Trailer posted here.

Room Correction Beta firmware for WiiM Pro, Pro Plus and Amp - User Testing Experience

…and this is exactly what beta is for.

forum.wiimhome.com

Red line = new algorithm
White line = old algorithm (after rollback)

The two measurements are almost identical in peak and dip frequencies, and the only difference is the volume per frequency. What does this mean?

To me, there is nothing wrong with the iphone microphone, and it looks like the WiiM is not properly handling the data it receives from the microphone. Also, based on the 1kHz area, it seems that the error occurs as you go outward.

By the way, this is just curious, what kind of test sweep does a WiiM device play? Is it the same for all beta firmwares? What are the results of measuring the WiiM test sweep with other apps?

 

[Schmidlapper]

Can someone usinf beta tell me how it initially handled any previous PEQ settings you had? I currently have a very good curve using the current four available, when the six additional are added, does it retain those previous saved settings, or is it a start from scratch type update? I ask because in the past WiiM has been good about retaining settings, but they need to be because they typically add these new features without recourse. I may want to continue to tweak, but not fully re-plow already good plowed ground. Thanks.