Room correction

[Yoku-San]

Dear @WiiM Team,

can you share anything about the room correction feature you are supposedly working on?

Thanks for information in advance!

 

[Vladetz]

Hi Steve,

We kindly ask our Beta users to report any issues they encounter directly to us, allowing us the opportunity to address and resolve them before making any public comments.

Hello
How is it possible to apply to beta program?

 

[Brantome]

Perhaps nearer the time

 

[Wischmopf]

Hi Brantome,

Apologies for any confusion. We've implemented a 10-band Parametric Equalizer (PEQ) to provide more precise control over EQ settings, enhancing room correction capabilities. Rest assured, the 10-band PEQ is designed to be flexible; it can be adjusted to use fewer bands if your setup requires a simpler configuration.

Dear Wiim-Team,

that sounds good! I am looking forward to test this firmware as soon as possible!

Best

 

[Smartplug]

All the room correction fanatics including myself. Well, once it becomes available to general public, try it out with or without and let your ear to decide. Bottom line, there’s a choice and I like choices especially that you can enable and disable the feature. With that said, wiim superiority on software leave high end high brand finding a way to appeal buyers. Do you want to spend thousands more just to get that remaining 10 percent?

 

[ZeN]

@WiiM Support will the 10-band PEQ be per channel?
As no room is symmetric the current implementation R+L+SUB does only make sense for the SUB frequencies

 

[Steve Woodhouse]

@WiiM Support will the 10-band PEQ be per channel?
As no room is symmetric the current implementation R+L+SUB does only make sense for the SUB frequencies

I think that’s an overstatement.

Whilst L and R responses may differ, depending on the room, it’s rare that they’re hugely out of whack.

 

[amix]

Why you need separate on left and right unless you put your speakers on unusual setup?

Even if your speakers are set up fully symmetrical, your room most probably is not. This can lead to different frequencies getting reflected differently on each speaker.

 

[Haskil]

Even if your speakers are set up fully symmetrical, your room most probably is not. This can lead to different frequencies getting reflected differently on each speaker.

O ! Yes ! Of course the natural modes do not change, but the way a speaker reacts in a room is totally linked to its location in the said room. in my case, there is less than a meter difference between the side wall and left speaker and another side wall and right speaker (1.10 from the wall on one side, 2 m on the other side in a rectangular room...) : the behavior of the two speakers is very different under 500 Hz... it's not a coincidence if Audyssey - for example - measures each of them and applies a specific correction... Having 10 identical PEQs on the two channels is much less useful than having 5 per channel...

 

[harkpabst]

Having 10 identical PEQs on the two channels is much less useful than having 5 per channel...

Talking from my experience I must agree.

However, since this thread is called room correction, I'd like to point out that ideally I will want both, applied at the same time, but independently: PEQ and room correction.

If room correction works well enough to iron out differences between the left and right speaker (due to placement) then I don't mind PEQ to work on both channels simultaneously.

That's a bold "if" (pun intended), but hey, I can still ask for it to happen. Admittedly, EQ applied to both channels would leave those of us behind who don't trust in automatic room correction and want to apply their filter settings manually. True, but possibly a geek's problem.

But if we are allowed to get geeky, there's one more feature I want: Speaker EQ independent from room correction and general EQ. That's how Lyngdorf do it and I plain love it. In my book this is a much more powerful tool than just heading for any target curve.

 

[Steve Woodhouse]

I appreciate that, even in a perfectly symmetrical room/set up, you can get imbalance due to furnishings and surfaces. But, contrary to popular belief, windows, doors and walls don’t have significantly different reflection characteristics.

And the imbalances, in a reasonably symmetrically room/set up, won’t be hugely different.

You canna change the laws of physics. Or maths.

 

[harkpabst]

Open breakthroughs in walls differ vastly from walls. That's in conformance with acoustics, physics and math, I reckon.

So no, I can't really share that point of view.

 

[Brantome]

Open breakthroughs in walls differ vastly from walls. That's in conformance with acoustics, physics and math, I reckon.

So no, I can't really share that point of view.

Linn’s “space optimisation” room correction/ acoustic modelling methodology requires, inter alia, that you “accurately measure your room dimensions, including all room features, and correctly identify the construction material of each surface, and enter these into the Space Optimisation user interface.”. You can also fine tune the absorption characteristics of each surface’s material should you wish. I’ve never done so as I’d doubt I’d notice the impact, but that fact that their model includes such variables would suggest that they do matter.

 

[harkpabst]

I bet they can.

But I'd rather like to see the room correction system measuring in different spots I the room what is really happening acoustically, instead of relying on users inputting absorption coefficients.

Sorry if I sound like a broken record here, but once again doing it the way Lyngdorf does it looks like the smartest (and relatively fool proof) way to me.

 

[Brantome]

I bet they can.

But I'd rather like to see the room correction system measuring in different spots I the room what is really happening acoustically, instead of relying on users inputting absorption coefficients.

The user doesn’t enter absorption coefficients as such but rather chooses the material, after which they can use a slider to increase or decrease its absorption.

Sorry if I sound like a vrikwn record here, but once again doing it the way Lyngdorf does it looks like the smartest (and relatively fool proof) way to me.

I’ll need to look that up - got a link?

 

[Steve Woodhouse]

Open breakthroughs in walls differ vastly from walls. That's in conformance with acoustics, physics and math, I reckon.

So no, I can't really share that point of view.

Then it’s not symmetrical, which is the point of view I was expressing, which makes this a Strawman argument.

 

[Steve Woodhouse]

 

[harkpabst]

Then it’s not symmetrical, which is the point of view I was expressing, which makes this a Strawman argument.

Sorry about that.

May I add that your “point of view“ was based on a red herring then, because nobody, neither @amix nor @Haskil nor myself have been talking about imbalances due to furniture and surfaces. We don't have the same definition of symmetry, at least.

Even if we accept that new direction of argument, posting blurry images without any context doesn't help your case. Contrary to common belief numbers do not speak for themselves.

 

[harkpabst]

I’ll need to look that up - got a link?

Not right now on my phone. For a primer just search for RoomPerfect on YouTube. There are a number of videos from Lyngdorf. They also provide batbleast one reasonably good white paper that's more in-depth than the marketing materials.

 

[Steve Woodhouse]

Sorry about that.

May I add that your “point of view“ was based on a red herring then, because nobody, neither @amix nor @Haskil nor myself have been talking about imbalances due to furniture and surfaces. We don't have the same definition of symmetry, at least.

Even if we accept that new direction of argument, posting blurry images without any context doesn't help your case. Contrary to common belief numbers do not speak for themselves.

My initial post was:

I appreciate that, even in a perfectly symmetrical room/set up, you can get imbalance due to furnishings and surfaces. But, contrary to popular belief, windows, doors and walls don’t have significantly different reflection characteristics.

And the imbalances, in a reasonably symmetrically room/set up, won’t be hugely different.

You canna change the laws of physics. Or maths.

So I think I covered all that.

Important thing to remember here, back to basics. The most important sound is direct from the speaker. Second most important is first reflections. After that you’re getting diminishing returns.

So, if you have a sofa in between one of your speakers and your seating position, but not the other speaker, this may have an impact. I don’t know of anyone with a room like that.

If you have clear lines for the path of direct sound, and the sound of first reflections, then whilst there may be differences, they’re likely to be small.

I fully appreciate some may want 200 band stereo eq and to iron out every last peak and dip, or stereo imbalance caused by the waste paper basket on the left of the room, but it’s not for me. And it’s clearly not for most.

Look, I fully appreciate what you want to do and what you’d like this to be. And I hope you get what you want. 10 band PEQ? Bring it on! Excellent stuff.

But let’s remember, even 4 bands of PEQ in the Amp, Pro and Pro Plus, never mind the £90 Mini, is revolutionary for both the price, and the type of device(s) we’re discussing. If we get more, that’s great. I’m just saying, the WiiMs don’t become some sort of failure without them.

Each to their own. Best wishes. And once again, I hope you get what you want from future PEQ and room correction updates.

 

[Brantome]

Not right now on my phone. For a primer just search for RoomPerfect on YouTube. There are a number of videos from Lyngdorf. They also provide batbleast one reasonably good white paper that's more in-depth than the marketing materials.

From a quick look it looks like it shares similarities but also differences with the approach Linn take with their Space Optimisation process, and like everything else in hi fi there are those who prefer one method over the other