SACD Rabbit Hole...

[Patagonia]

In my experience DSD layer will usually sound better (both using internal or external DAC) because normaly they will have a more carefuly worked master including less dinamic compresion. I think its not technical but just marketing as its the same on vinyl despite having on theory less dynamic range than CD.

Exceptions apply, look for example at Genesis Invisible Touch SACD, awfully mastered! (Search in the dr-loudness website database, though not perfect it gives a good idea of the kind of mastering each edition has)

Edit: this is mainly rock/pop, Jazz and Classical for example are less affected so less difference cd/sacd/vinyl

 

[jetson]

Surely the RCA output is analog not PCM.

I'm confused about what this guy wants, sorry

 

[slartibartfast]

I'm confused about what this guy wants, sorry

I think he just wants to know if the SACD layer or the CD layer of a hybrid SACD will sound better when connecting the RCA outputs to an amplifier. The answer is normally yes since the CD version always uses a more compressed master.

 

[jetson]

I think he just wants to know if the SACD layer or the CD layer of a hybrid SACD will sound better when connecting the RCA outputs to an amplifier. The answer is normally yes since the CD version always uses a more compressed master.

Okay. I don't think he'll notice much difference. He'll have to do it like the link I sent to fully enjoy the SACD.

 

[motleypixel]

I'm confused about what this guy wants, sorry

Hey "guy" here No issues/conflicts/arguments/bad feelings, I completely understand because often I don't move in a discussion in smaller bits; rater, big chunks that tend to get the point muddied too much. Most of the confusion is from trying to ask/explain about confusion on this topic

I'm starting to believe that the quality of audio coming out of my speakers via option B. below is > option A. Now because of this, it does not mean I'm going to rid myself of my 200ish audio CDs and replace them with only SACD (even if that was actually possible). It means that now I may replace my CD only transport (S.M.S.L. PL-100) with this pristine (new belt) Oppo that will do the same job as my SMSL (although, I guess I could go down another rabbit hole and compare, does the Oppo offer gapless playback, etc?). In this case I would then have the ability to pull a select few SACD titles and drink my favorite IPA while listening. Will the IPA taste better with SACD or CD?

A. 2003 30th Anniversary DSOTM SACD, CD layer read by the Oppo and outputted to my stereo system via L/R RCA.
B. 2003 30th Anniversary DSOTM SACD, DSD layer read by the Oppo and outputted to my stereo system via L/R RCA.

Finally, here's my last question and response from Oppo support, tis true, very good customer service to a chap that acquired their 2006/7 device second hand:

Me:
Can I benefit from better quality audio playback if I play an SACD that only has a stereo DSD layer when outputting from the Oppo analog RCA L/R White/Red to my music AMP that drives two speakers (no DAC in the amp)? Any help with the work-flow of laser reading the stereo DSD layer from the SACD > speakers in terms of intelligence format through each step?

Thank you.

Oppo Support:
Hi motleypixel,

You will have a higher sample rate when playing SACDs compared to CDs. Even when using the RCA outputs, you will need to make sure the player is not selected for CD Mode when playing hybrid SACDs to take advantage of the DSD layer.

Best Regards,

Customer Service
OT Service, Inc.
Service@oppodigital.com

 

[slartibartfast]

Hey "guy" here No issues/conflicts/arguments/bad feelings, I completely understand because often I don't move in a discussion in smaller bits; rater, big chunks that tend to get the point muddied too much. Most of the confusion is from trying to ask/explain about confusion on this topic

I'm starting to believe that the quality of audio coming out of my speakers via option B. below is > option A. Now because of this, it does not mean I'm going to rid myself of my 200ish audio CDs and replace them with only SACD (even if that was actually possible). It means that now I may replace my CD only transport (S.M.S.L. PL-100) with this pristine (new belt) Oppo that will do the same job as my SMSL (although, I guess I could go down another rabbit hole and compare, does the Oppo offer gapless playback, etc?). In this case I would then have the ability to pull a select few SACD titles and drink my favorite IPA while listening. Will the IPA taste better with SACD or CD?

A. 2003 30th Anniversary DSOTM SACD, CD layer read by the Oppo and outputted to my stereo system via L/R RCA.
B. 2003 30th Anniversary DSOTM SACD, DSD layer read by the Oppo and outputted to my stereo system via L/R RCA.

Finally, here's my last question and response from Oppo support, tis true, very good customer service to a chap that acquired their 2006/7 device second hand:

Me:
Can I benefit from better quality audio playback if I play an SACD that only has a stereo DSD layer when outputting from the Oppo analog RCA L/R White/Red to my music AMP that drives two speakers (no DAC in the amp)? Any help with the work-flow of laser reading the stereo DSD layer from the SACD > speakers in terms of intelligence format through each step?

Thank you.

Oppo Support:
Hi motleypixel,

You will have a higher sample rate when playing SACDs compared to CDs. Even when using the RCA outputs, you will need to make sure the player is not selected for CD Mode when playing hybrid SACDs to take advantage of the DSD layer.

Best Regards,

Customer Service
OT Service, Inc.
Service@oppodigital.com

I have to say the answer from Oppo is exactly the kind of answer I expect from all customer service departments to any question

 

[FreakyKiwi]

The Wiiim supports DSD file playback by converting to high bitrate PCM .

My suggestion would be to rip the SACDs to DSD files and play directly on the Wiim over DLNA or file share to bypass the extra DAC-ADC conversion step when using the analog connection

Playing DSD Audio Files on WiiM Devices

All WiiM devices, except for the WiiM Mini, support DSD audio file playback. These devices convert DSD content into PCM data for playback, with a sample rate of up to 192kHz. Here are the ways you can play DSD audio files on WiiM devices: ...

faq.wiimhome.com

 

[dtc]

You cannot rip from that Oppo player. You need a much newer model to do that. Only a few SACD players with a specific chip can rip a CD using a special process. It is not as easy as ripping a CD.

 

[FreakyKiwi]

You cannot rip from that Oppo player. You need a much newer model to do that. Only a few SACD players with a specific chip can rip a CD using a special process. It is not as easy as ripping a CD.

OK. The AVS forum posts I checked did mention support for ripping using some Oppo players but I'm not familiar with this one.

FWIW I picked up a used Sony Bluray player for $30 which I ripped SACDs with.

 

[Patagonia]

OK. The AVS forum posts I checked did mention support for ripping using some Oppo players but I'm not familiar with this one.

FWIW I picked up a used Sony Bluray player for $30 which I ripped SACDs with.

Can you share the model please.
Thanks

 

[motleypixel]

Interesting, I do know that one of the reasons CDs won over SACD was the added copyright protection of the SACD. Something about inability of outputting SACD DSD reads over digital outputs because that would make duplication even easier.

For me right now this isn't about searching for that new format that is better in quality, it's about understanding SACDs and how this player may or may not fit in my setup. See I enjoy spinning a vinyl as much as pulling a CD and inserting it into my small CD transport (SMSL PL-100) along with UPnP via cast to Ultra of my NAS flac library (NAS flacs>Plex Media Server>Symfonium on my android phone>cast to WiiM)

I finally got my hands on Pink Floyd's Wish You Were Hear hybrid SACD and it was not a good start with this Oppo player DV-980H. I have the Oppo hooked up to my bench testing setup which is a simple China Class D amp (no DAC) and some shop JBL bookshelf speakers. I connected the Oppo via the L/R RCA out on the rear, the audio out RCA section that supports stereo, 5.1 and 7.1. The Oppo was also connected to my bench LCD so I could ensure all the player settings were correct. When the Oppo loaded the SACD it immediately started playing and on the LCD it said SACD and on the monitor it showed an SACD track list BUT there was no sound.

I ejected the SACD and put in a normal audio CD and it showed LCPM on the players display and I more basic now playing on my monitor and it played sound. I spend the next 15 mins trying all sort of different settings in the player to no avail. However, there is an SACD setting to play only the PCM CD layer if it's a hybrid and that worked.

I then went to google searching and found this: https://audiokarma.org/forums/index...og-output-from-sacd-and-how-to-fix-it.809908/

Then I google for fw and found this: https://www.oppodigital.com/support/dv980h/dv980h-firmware-19-0722.aspx

Applied the fw and viola it played SACD out of the stereo out. I then moved into listening really close between the CD layer and the SACD DSD played layer it was very hard for my ears and likely oh what do they call it bias or placebo effect, meaning I wanted to say the SACD was a lower noise floor.

So the last step was to connect my headphone amp and my Sennheiser HD600s and this is where I did pick up a difference in that the noise floor of the SACD was a black hole, nothing, but the CD track high some, in addition, there are some instrumentals with hard stops/gaps and in the SACD they are very clean, not sure how to articulate it.

So here's the deal, in the end, my analysis here for my own personal goal/tastes, I feel like I want to replace my SMSL PL-100 CD transport with this Oppo which would still do a wonderful job at spinning my audio CDs but also when I feel like it, spinning a select few SACDs; in fact, attached just came in this morning (I ordered it from amazon), the Pink Floyd was a lent from a friend.

Thank you.

 

[Patagonia]

You will get small differences that could be audible due to different reproduction chains you use for dsd/pcm, but as I commented before far more notizable differences will come from the different masters used, and this you can enjoy (or dislike) independant of the format, In that sense i’m agnostic to format and will play vinyl/cd/sacd/hires depending on where I find the best mastering.

The Brothers in Arms SACD you show was originaly recorded to a 16/44 PCM Sony recorder, as to try to explain what differences you find.

 

[motleypixel]

The Brothers in Arms SACD you show was originaly recorded to a 16/44 PCM Sony recorder, as to try to explain what differences you find.

Where can I find this info out? Another way to ask, for this album, what's the best source recording (master) to SACD available?

Thank you.

 

[Valentino]

The info about the machine can be found on Wikipedia.
If it is correct that the ADC was running at 44.1 kHz the technically closest to the master would be a CD, not a SACD with its upsampling and PCM to DSD conversion.

 

[Patagonia]

Where can I find this info out? Another way to ask, for this album, what's the best source recording (master) to SACD available?

Thank you.

That’s a deeper rabbit hole hehehe.
There is not one source for knowing original recording technicalities or the provenance and proccess of every master/remaster. Wikipedia could have info, sometimes on the release info on Discogs, interviews done to musicians or engineers, forums as Steve Hoffmann (lots of discusion regarding different editions of the same album) etc, etc.

For the albums I realy like I investigate a lot before buying, for others you can start by asuming anything before lets say 1980 has a high chance of being analog recorded, then till mid 90s big chance of 16/44 or even DAT, later gets more diffusive though mainstream hi res recording is not very old and even today its not something everyone does.

For the oldies the question is how were they digitalized from the analog tapes and once again some hours surfing the web can help.

And I also try to stay away of anything claiming “remaster” unless Im sure its done well, if not its probably just a louder and more dinamicaly compressed version, good for hearing in a noisy environments as a car or metro but not if you want to enjoy good sounding music.

 

[jetson]

Can you share the model please.
Thanks

For me, it's a Sony BDP-BX39.
All information here:

How to Rip an SACD – Absolutely Baching

absolutelybaching.com

And here for all compatible models:

Rip SACD with a Blu-ray player

Welcome to the HiFi Haven Rip SACD with a Blu-ray player thread! This thread does not intend to rehash or further detail the well established PlayStation 3 SACD ripping method, nor the more recent Blu-ray player method, that in each case typically involves use of a command line interface (CLI)...

hifihaven.org

 

[FreakyKiwi]

Can you share the model please.
Thanks

I use a Sony BDP-S590