Seeking Validation: Liberating from Sonos with a Future-Proof Wiim Expansion Architecture

[castalla]

The best solution to free yourself from the Sonos dictatorship (and the current chaotic farago caused by the unecessary catastrophic app updates) is to install LMS (formerly Logitech Media Server} on a low cost raspberry pi - then implement the upnpbridge plugin. Access all your Sonos devices. It works.

It's free and runs on pi, Windows, Linux and even on android. Requires some basic tech. skill - it's not plug'n'play but equally not rocket science.

 

[d6jg]

The best solution to free yourself from the Sonos dictatorship (and the current chaotic farago caused by the unecessary catastrophic app updates) is to install LMS (formerly Logitech Media Server} on a low cost raspberry pi - then implement the upnpbridge plugin. Access all your Sonos devices. It works.

It's free and runs on pi, Windows, Linux and even on android. Requires some basic tech. skill - it's not plug'n'play but equally not rocket science.

This is entirely true BUT the pseudo Squeezelite players created for each Sonos using the UPnPBridge will not properly sync and, according to the developer, never will.

However, if you were to build an LMS server on a Pi the WiiM devices (except Mini) will appear as native LMS players and can be synced. You could then use a WiiM Pro as a feed to a Sonos Port and not use the UPnPBridge at all. The result would be WiiM/Squeezelite devices in sync, Sonos devices in sync with each other but the 2 systems very slightly out due to the ADC requirement of the Sonos Port.

You would ditch the Sonos app, only use the WiiM app for setup and control everything via LMS (typically using Material ona phone or tablet).

I believe the original requirement was Deezer and YouTube Music. LMS can definitely do Deezer and there is a plugin for YouTube but I have never used it.

There is always a compromise required somewhere.

 

[Jls]

Are you saying that Sonos works for you or is there something missing? If so, what?

I like two things about Sonos. I like the streaming apps and the fact that I don’t need a computer server. Sort of. Sonos requires a server or NAS for the local library. They forgot to put a USB port on the Port. A Shame, because the $80 Roku has a USB slot and good media player.

I have a SiriusXM subscription for the car, and it works for home streaming at no extra cost. I have Sonos playlists that combine stuff from Spotify, local library, and Sirius. No Roon subscription required. I organized my library with Media Monkey and fixed the metadata. It’s good enough for me. Despite the app fiasco, I have found ways to continue using my playlists.

So here’s the missing pieces: a digital input from the TV, a decent phono preamp, a remote volume control that doesn’t require fumbling with a phone. Automatic input switching would be nice.

WiiM fills most of the gaps with the Ultra.

 

[Jls]

Here’s something I haven’t mentioned: there’s sonophone and SonoPad for controlling Sonos playing. They are truly great apps. They aren’t broken.

Roon sounds great, but it’s another subscription. Media Monkey has a great tag editor, and it’s cheap. There are other organizers, but I learned this one. It’s like ITunes back when iTunes was good.

 

[castalla]

If you have SMBv1 Music Library (many do, via router USB memory stick, etc.) you are now stuffed by Sonos. You'll have to purchase a new NAS or router with smbv2/3. Totally pointless change, since security risk with SMBv1 is practically non existent (not one instance in 10 years with Sonos).

Synchro playing is useless if nothing else works!

This fiasco could kill Sonos - they're already offering 25% off speakers now. They won't work but at least they are reduced.

 

[Jls]

If you have SMBv1 Music Library (many do, via router USB memory stick, etc.) you are now stuffed by Sonos. You'll have to purchase a new NAS or router with smbv2/3. Totally pointless change, since security risk with SMBv1 is practically non existent (not one instance in 10 years with Sonos).

Synchro playing is useless if nothing else works!

This fiasco could kill Sonos - they're already offering 25% off speakers now. They won't work but at least they are reduced.

My library is on a PC. I did have to re-add the folders after the update, but everything works now, except the Sonos app. I have phone with the old app that works, and for newer phones, the sonophone app.

I’m curious about NAS. I tried some a decade ago, for backups, and they were so slow, I gave up.

 

[castalla]

My library is on a PC. I did have to re-add the folders after the update, but everything works now, except the Sonos app. I have phone with the old app that works, and for newer phones, the sonophone app.

I’m curious about NAS. I tried some a decade ago, for backups, and they were so slow, I gave up.

My file library is so small that a huge power hungry NAS would be overkill. A usb stick was perfect.
Your PC must be smbv2/3 compliant.
Sonos have mangled this episode so much that I no longer care what they do.

 

[d6jg]

My library is on a PC. I did have to re-add the folders after the update, but everything works now, except the Sonos app. I have phone with the old app that works, and for newer phones, the sonophone app.

I’m curious about NAS. I tried some a decade ago, for backups, and they were so slow, I gave up.

A decade ago a NAS was slow but not really the case any longer. Most of the higher end manufacturers - you do get what you pay for - include a media server (DLNA) of sorts or allow you to install better media server software if you wish. The advantage over a PC is the 24/7 nature but these days a Raspberry Pi and attached USB drive is a viable cheap to buy and cheap to run alternative to a NAS.

If you have an old NAS with only smb v1 support a Raspberry Pi can be made to talk to it as a file store which can re-enable Windows file sharing via the Pi for you.

 

[Jls]

NAS alternative.

Amazon.com

Add a USB drive or two.

 

[d6jg]

NAS alternative.

Amazon.com

Add a USB drive or two.

Good choice if you put a suitable Linux onto it but that is easy enough.

W10 is EOL in October 2025 and that CPU is unlikely to officially support W11 although there are still ways to install it.

The next W11 update will completely remove SMB v1 support rendering old, but perfectly good, NAS unusable with upto date W11 installs. You can however still use this sort of NAS with WinSCP or use a Pi and mount the NAS drives via cifs or NFS and then expose them via Samba on the Pi as a front end.

 

[castalla]

The TP LINK nano ac750 in client mode should work as a cheap memory stick file store. It's smbv2. About 30-40 currency units from the usual A store.

 

[Jls]

Good choice if you put a suitable Linux onto it but that is easy enough.

W10 is EOL in October 2025 and that CPU is unlikely to officially support W11 although there are still ways to install it.

The next W11 update will completely remove SMB v1 support rendering old, but perfectly good, NAS unusable with upto date W11 installs. You can however still use this sort of NAS with WinSCP or use a Pi and mount the NAS drives via cifs or NFS and then expose them via Samba on the Pi as a front end.

It’s not end of life. It’s end of feature updates. If you only use it as a server, it will run until the drives die.

 

[slartibartfast]

It’s not end of life. It’s end of feature updates. If you only use it as a server, it will run until the drives die.

It's end of security updates not just feature updates.

 

[Jls]

It's end of security updates not just feature updates.

Not a big deal if you don’t use it for email or sketchy internet browsing. Just uninstall all the unused apps.

 

[harkpabst]

Not a big deal if you don’t use it for email or sketchy internet browsing. Just uninstall all the unused apps.

It's not a big deal only if you don't connect it to the Internet.

Sooner rather than later vulnerabilities will be actively exploited even if you don't do nothing on that machine.

Here is one example (and it's just an example) what can happen if you decide to setup a new Windows XP machine and connect it to the Internet:

Not really comparable, but you never know what's going to happen in the future.

 

[simbun]

It's not a big deal only if you don't connect it to the Internet.

Only if you don't connect it directly to the internet.

Assuming you're using a NAT router there's still no way I'd be doing anything internet facing on it at all.

 

[Jls]

It's not a big deal only if you don't connect it to the Internet.

Sooner rather than later vulnerabilities will be actively exploited even if you don't do nothing on that machine.

Here is one example (and it's just an example) what can happen if you decide to setup a new Windows XP machine and connect it to the Internet:

Not really comparable, but you never know what's going to happen in the future.

This is silly. We are discussing a machine that does nothing but serve files that never change. You have to have offline copies of your music, because disk drives die. It’s possible that someone with NSA level resources could get past your router(which is a firewall), and get past your windows firewall, and get past your file permissions, but what for, if you keep no personal information on the computer?

 

[harkpabst]

To each his own level of silliness.

Let me just repeat that October 2025 is not just the end of feature updates for Windows 10, so the initial reasoning has shifted.

I don't want to discuss how routers are potenfially prone to attacks, software updates may contain malicious code, corrupted services don't care about file system permissions and how even those who have nothing to hide can be victims of hobby level attackers using pro level tools. My last word on it, I swear.

 

[Jls]

Okay, I will give up on defending W10, except to say that MS will offer paid support for three additional years. And W11 pro computers start at $200 on Amazon.

I have tried Plex and found it unusable for serving music. It doesn’t seem to support browsing folders, and it completely misunderstands my organization. The Sonos server may temporarily suck due to app problems, but it accepts my organization and passes it through.

It appears that the only reasonably good servers are Sonos and Roon, and Roon is not cheap. Am I wrong in thinking that to have a server, you need a Mac or Windows PC. Is there an NAS device that can directly serve to Sonos?

If not, what is the advantage of paying for an NAS, as opposed to having a PC with USB attached drives?

 

[slartibartfast]

Okay, I will give up on defending W10, except to say that MS will offer paid support for three additional years. And W11 pro computers start at $200 on Amazon.

I have tried Plex and found it unusable for serving music. It doesn’t seem to support browsing folders, and it completely misunderstands my organization. The Sonos server may temporarily suck due to app problems, but it accepts my organization and passes it through.

It appears that the only reasonably good servers are Sonos and Roon, and Roon is not cheap. Am I wrong in thinking that to have a server, you need a Mac or Windows PC. Is there an NAS device that can directly serve to Sonos?

If not, what is the advantage of paying for an NAS, as opposed to having a PC with USB attached drives?

Have you heard of Logitech Media Server?