Seeking Validation: Liberating from Sonos with a Future-Proof Wiim Expansion Architecture

[simbun]

It appears that the only reasonably good servers are Sonos and Roon, and Roon is not cheap.

Sonos is a very primitive server (it doesn't even handle multiple track artists), not that dissimilar to MiniDLNA (WiiM Amp).

Am I wrong in thinking that to have a server, you need a Mac or Windows PC. Is there an NAS device that can directly serve to Sonos?

Anything that supports smb v2 can be used to serve Sonos, from a Raspberry Pi and up.

If not, what is the advantage of paying for an NAS, as opposed to having a PC with USB attached drives?

Depending on what solution you choose, mostly power consumption and resilience.

 

[Jls]

Have you heard of Logitech Media Server?

There are lots of media servers, but not many can be used with Sonos. The thing to realize is that Artist and Album are irrelevant for classical music, and the things that are important are not supported.

iTunes and Media Monkey support classical and custom organization.

Since players don’t support this way of organizing, I put compositions in folders. If I can’t browse by folder, the player is useless. The Roku media player allows browsing folders, and it can see any kind of DLNA server.

 

[slartibartfast]

There are lots of media servers, but not many can be used with Sonos. The thing to realize is that Artist and Album are irrelevant for classical music, and the things that are important are not supported.

iTunes and Media Monkey support classical and custom organization.

Since players don’t support this way of organizing, I put compositions in folders. If I can’t browse by folder, the player is useless. The Roku media player allows browsing folders, and it can see any kind of DLNA server.

Many people do use LMS with Sonos players. It's free so nothing to lose by trying it.

 

[Jls]

Anything that supports smb v2 can be used to serve Sonos, from a Raspberry Pi and up.

I would appreciate knowing how.

Artist is not something I search for or sort by.

 

[Jls]

I would appreciate knowing how.

Artist is not something I search for or sort by.

I’m thinking these servers are using airplay to serve to Sonos. I’m sure that works, but it breaks the unified Sonus interface. Since my wife is the primary user, this is a non starter.

My organization is simple: CD or LP name, CD number for multi-CD compositions, track number. Track name.

There can be more than one composition on a CD, each having multiple tracks.

This is not a problem if you can put things in folders and browse folders.

In the absence of decent players, browsing by folder is essential.

 

[simbun]

I would appreciate knowing how.

If you were to use a Raspbery Pi and had little to no Linux knowledge you could probably (I could test this) use something like DietPi to mount your drive and setup a basic smb share.

Artist is not something I search for or sort by.

I don't search them either, but it's nice to be able to see them

 

[simbun]

I’m thinking these servers are using airplay to serve to Sonos. I’m sure that works, but it breaks the unified Sonus interface. Since my wife is the primary user, this is a non starter.

If you're replying to me, the Raspberry Pi is just the hardware that would hold your music for Sonos to index.

There are lots of better solutions for indexing your music (they're very good UPnP speakers which is how I use them), but none that you can use within the Sonos app (given you don't like Plex).

 

[Jls]

If you're replying to me, the Raspberry Pi is just the hardware that would hold your music for Sonos to index.

There are lots of better solutions for indexing your music, but none that you can use within the Sonos app.

I have no trouble tagging files so they play in the right sequence. Both Media Monkey and iTunes understand the need to customize organization, and both will sort classical music in a way that makes sense. Multiple CDs per composition, sorting by composer and composition. But most players are stupid and only support the pop/rock way of organizing.

So folder browsing is essential.

 

[simbun]

I have no trouble tagging files so they play in the right sequence. Both Media Monkey and iTunes understand the need to customize organization, and both will sort classical music in a way that makes sense. Multiple CDs per composition, sorting by composer and composition. But most players are stupid and only support the pop/rock way of organizing.

So folder browsing is essential.

I do understand. I use a UPnP server (MinimServer) that was designed for classical music, not that I use it for that myself, but you're constrained by wishing to stick to the Sonos app. I use MinimServer and BubbleUPnP and that combination works well with Sonos speakers, even the buttons on the speakers themselves function properly (volume and track skipping).

I thought I was answering your query about other methods to host your music.

Am I wrong in thinking that to have a server, you need a Mac or Windows PC. Is there an NAS device that can directly serve to Sonos?

Unless by "serve" you mean to play to Sonos outside of the Sonos app (see my comments above)?

 

[Brantome]

I think LMS has a plugin/ setting for classical music which like most things in LMS will have been well thought out and well implemented

 

[simbun]

I think LMS has a plugin/ setting for classical music which like most things in LMS will have been well thought out and well implemented

I think there's been recent development to bring Works into LMS too, but I've always had trouble with my Sonos Play One's and LMS, the same as has been discussed here.

 

[Jls]

This is not entirely a classical problem. It is quite common for one song to appear on multiple albums. Or for the same album to be released multiple times with some differences.

I do understand. I use a UPnP server (MinimServer) that was designed for classical music, not that I use it for that myself, but you're constrained by wishing to stick to the Sonos app. I use MinimServer and BubbleUPnP and that combination works well with Sonos speakers, even the buttons on the speakers themselves function properly (volume and track skipping).

I thought I was answering your query about other methods to host your music.

Unless by "serve" you mean to play to Sonos outside of the Sonos app (see my comments above)?

i could adapt to just about any configuration or technology, but the reason Sonos exists is to provide a simple, unified interface. That, and multi room, wireless. That’s two rather significant and desirable features.

My understanding of Roon is that it does all this and better than Sonos, but it costs money.

I could join the chorus of people pointing out how stupid it is to force a broken app on all your customers, but that’s been done to death.

I’m afraid I’m the ultimate dream of Sonos. A multi-generational customer. I’m here because I’m probably going to buy a Wiim amp and and Ultra. The DSP alone is worth it. Since I have a few months, I can think about how they will integrate,

 

[Jls]

I keep having stray thoughts. If you AirPlay to a Sonos Port, and the Port is in a group, does everything stay in synch?

 

[Jls]

My apologies. I found the trouble. There is a place in the Sonos app to find and use media servers.

The old app. I have the old app, and media servers is grayed out.

So there’s a coincidence that they broke the app just as I was getting interested in a feature.

 

[simbun]

My apologies. I found the trouble. There is a place in the Sonos app to find and use media servers.

The old app. I have the old app, and media servers is grayed out.

I think the "supported" media servers were very limited. I remember partial support for AssetUPnP and Windows media sharing, but nothing usable really.

Sonos came to an arrangement with Plex. Sonos only supports the Plex media server, and Plex only plays to Sonos UPnP speakers.

 

[Jls]

I think the "supported" media servers were very limited. I remember partial support for AssetUPnP and Windows media sharing, but nothing usable really.

Sonos came to an arrangement with Plex. Sonos only supports the Plex media server, and Plex only plays to Sonos UPnP speakers.

Plex makes Sonos library look like the work of geniuses.

Update: yesterday I installed the Plex server and added folders to the music library. The folders contain about 500 CDs and 200 LP FLAC files.

Plex shows 104 somethings. I can’t even tell what they are supposed to be. They aren’t albums, and the art is nothing related to albums or CDs. They aren’t listable in file or folder or name. The names are unrelated to the actual content. As best I can tell they are artist names, but that is insane.

Plex as a music server is absolutely the worst piece of software I’ve ever encountered.

 

[simbun]

Plex shows 104 somethings. I can’t even tell what they are supposed to be. They aren’t albums, and the art is nothing related to albums or CDs. They aren’t listable in file or folder or name. The names are unrelated to the actual content. As best I can tell they are artist names, but that is insane.

Plex as a music server is absolutely the worst piece of software I’ve ever encountered.

Are you indexing your classical music? I've never had a problem with Plex, and I know a LOT of people swear by it.

 

[Jls]

Are you indexing your classical music? I've never had a problem with Plex, and I know a LOT of people swear by it.

I installed the Plex server and added two folders to the music server. It crunched for a couple of hours and came up with a 104 icons that mean nothing to me. How can I search for folders and files? All of my files are tagged in ITunes style. The Sonos library server has no trouble indexing them.

Since I have apps that still work with the Sonos library, I give an example. If I search for a composer, the results are CDs, and if I click on one, the correct contents comes up.

 

[hoohoohoo]

Plex makes Sonos library look like the work of geniuses.

Update: yesterday I installed the Plex server and added folders to the music library. The folders contain about 500 CDs and 200 LP FLAC files.

Plex shows 104 somethings. I can’t even tell what they are supposed to be. They aren’t albums, and the art is nothing related to albums or CDs. They aren’t listable in file or folder or name. The names are unrelated to the actual content. As best I can tell they are artist names, but that is insane.

Plex as a music server is absolutely the worst piece of software I’ve ever encountered.

It's likely that your music file naming and file organization doesn't line up well with Plex. Plex is excellent software for a broad range of media.

Plex Naming Convention for Music

Within Plex, music naming convention is important for Plex to download the metadata. This guide explains the proper way of naming music.

www.plexopedia.com

 

[Jls]

It's likely that your music file naming and file organization doesn't line up well with Plex. Plex is excellent software for a broad range of media.

Plex Naming Convention for Music

Within Plex, music naming convention is important for Plex to download the metadata. This guide explains the proper way of naming music.

www.plexopedia.com

My system originated in iTunes. It’s not complicated. Album or CD by name. Followed by tracks in numeric order. Multiple CDs can have the same name, but there’s CD number.

The best way to describe this is to say that, with possibly one exception, music servers simply don’t understand any organization that requires the name of the composition and a list of albums that contain it. That’s how you think when selecting music. If you have duplicate performances, you need to see the conductor or the soloist.

To work around this, I put albums in folders.

So when I want to play something I need to be able to browse folders.