The end of my discovery…. Please read

[CrystalGipsy]

Just me silly enough to ask then!
I know that when I do use Apple Music via WiiM Pro, my amp tells me I’m receiving 44.1, but I’m sure I read elsewhere that Airplay over WiFi this way does not achieve this resolution and is a much lower lossy format?

WiFi has nothing to do with Airplay quality it works over wired or wireless it’s a network transport stream, something people seem to not grasp. It’s the same quality regardless of your network connection. For apps using Airplay 2 and low latency streaming it only outputs AAC 44.1 256kb/s streams. For apps using legacy realtime streams (Qobuz) it’s lossless ALAC at 44.1/16.

 

[Yanto]

WiFi has nothing to do with Airplay quality it works over wired or wireless it’s a network transport stream, something people seem to not grasp. It’s the same quality regardless of your network connection. For apps using Airplay 2 and low latency streaming it only outputs AAC 44.1 256kb/s streams. For apps using legacy realtime streams (Qobuz) it’s lossless ALAC at 44.1/16.

Thanks for that explanation. My previous system (Kef LS50W2) could achieve 24/48 Lossless streaming Apple Music via Airplay 2.

 

[The WiiMer]

Persons seem to be under a misapprehension about the lossy-only thing. AirPlay 2 can use either the lossy AAC codec or the lossless ALAC codec at 44100 hertz 16 bits. I know this to be fact because a veteran company for Mac audio programmes clarified this for me recently. I believe it depends on the software although I can be mistaken. If the protocol can utilise higher sample rates and bigger word lengths then I know not about them.

 

[Yanto]

Persons seem to be under a misapprehension about the lossy-only thing. AirPlay 2 can use either the lossy AAC codec or the lossless ALAC codec at 44100 hertz 16 bits. I know this to be fact because a veteran company for Mac audio programmes clarified this for me recently. I believe it depends on the software although I can be mistaken. If the protocol can utilise higher sample rates and bigger word lengths then I know not about them.

So can you tell me definitively whether or not I receive ALAC when streaming Apple Music to my WiiM Pro via Airplay 2 please?

 

[Brantome]

So can you tell me definitively whether or not I receive ALAC when streaming Apple Music to my WiiM Pro via Airplay 2 please?

You don’t. Here’s the link I probably have posted umpteen times here and elsewhere ( I did a search, this is the 16th time I’ve posted this )

Apple Music Lossless Mess Part 2: AirPlay

Earlier this month I dug into Apple Music's Lossless and Hi-Res offerings, running several bit perfect rests on the audio output of my Macs and iOS devices. The results were less than stellar (link). This week I dug into Apple Music lossless over AirPlay. One would think that the results would be...

audiophilestyle.com

And this Darko blog where it seems more optimistic but only when Airplay 1 is involved

Apple AirPlay isn’t always lossless. Sometimes it’s lossy — but why? | Darko.Audio

According to the diligent work of Darko.Audio Patron Brother Thomas.

darko.audio

 

[CrystalGipsy]

Thanks for that explanation. My previous system (Kef LS50W2) could achieve 24/48 Lossless streaming Apple Music via Airplay 2.

Not for Apple music it would not it’s only ever been available at 44.1 AAC via Airplay 2 on any device no exceptions, this is set by the app itself not the receiving device and had been covered to death over the last few years since it launched. The end device might decode and upsample the AAC stream to 48/24 but the source certainly isn’t for AM. Apple TVs only accept 48/24 so any file is decoded/resampled to it by default over Airplay.

If a device is legacy Airplay (not Airplay) it’s 44.1/16 ALAC sent by any app.

Airplay and Airplay 2 only supports 44.1/16 for music currently, 48/24 is for Video content only. The protocol is capable of higher but they have not configured it to do so. HomePods don’t stream over Airplay they use a handoff to the device so it’s pulling the stream so can do a max of 48/24.

 

[CrystalGipsy]

So can you tell me definitively whether or not I receive ALAC when streaming Apple Music to my WiiM Pro via Airplay 2 please?

You get AAC same as every other device on the planet when using Airplay 2 it categorically doesn’t use ALAC for streaming.

 

[CrystalGipsy]

Persons seem to be under a misapprehension about the lossy-only thing. AirPlay 2 can use either the lossy AAC codec or the lossless ALAC codec at 44100 hertz 16 bits. I know this to be fact because a veteran company for Mac audio programmes clarified this for me recently. I believe it depends on the software although I can be mistaken. If the protocol can utilise higher sample rates and bigger word lengths then I know not about them.

It wholly depends on what streaming type the decode to use. Low Latency is what Airplay 2 developed for to allow stable multiroom and less network dropouts which legacy Airplay suffered from. Airplay is generally used from a phone which has pretty poor spec networking and will have issues with multiple streams of lossless audio. Low latency streaming uses AAC and not ALAC to help alleviate this load on mobile devices. AM uses Low Latency mode. If the app decides to use legacy Realtime streaming it uses ALAC but is very susceptible to all the issues associated with original Airplay. It will work for mulitroom the same but your putting a lot more pressure on a small device, likey more battery drain and it will get a lot hotter.

 

[Yanto]

You get AAC same as every other device on the planet when using Airplay 2 it categorically doesn’t use ALAC for streaming.

I actually contacted Kef direct and they were adamant that the LS50W2 upsampled to 24/48 when using Airplay 2, when used in wired mode.
Obviously now then, using a different set up including WiiM Pro, it does not upsample and is giving the lossy aac instead.

 

[Yanto]

You don’t. Here’s the link I probably have posted umpteen times here and elsewhere

Apple Music Lossless Mess Part 2: AirPlay

Earlier this month I dug into Apple Music's Lossless and Hi-Res offerings, running several bit perfect rests on the audio output of my Macs and iOS devices. The results were less than stellar (link). This week I dug into Apple Music lossless over AirPlay. One would think that the results would be...

audiophilestyle.com

And this Darko blog where it seems more optimistic but only when Airplay 1 is involved

Apple AirPlay isn’t always lossless. Sometimes it’s lossy — but why? | Darko.Audio

According to the diligent work of Darko.Audio Patron Brother Thomas.

darko.audio

Thanks. So the earlier post that stated that Airplay 2 can use ALAC to achieve 16/44.1 lossless is incorrect.

 

[Brantome]

Thanks. So the earlier post that stated that Airplay 2 can use ALAC to achieve 16/44.1 lossless is incorrect.

From what I read, I believe so

 

[CrystalGipsy]

From what I read, I believe so

Airplay 2 can use ALAC as I have said and that article says if it they use low latency it is AAC, if not it’s ALAC. Both are delivered by Airplay 2 both can do mulitroom one is likely more reliable than the other.

 

[CrystalGipsy]

I actually contacted Kef direct and they were adamant that the LS50W2 upsampled to 24/48 when using Airplay 2, when used in wired mode.
Obviously now then, using a different set up including WiiM Pro, it does not upsample and is giving the lossy aac instead.

Clue being upsampling which is done on the Kefs and has nothing to do with the stream it’s receiving which is lossy AAC. Upsampling is converting one thing to another your not getting any better source it’s still streaming AAC to the speakers. All devices can decode lossy mp3 or AAC to whatever rate they like that’s a design choice but has nothing to do with Airplay2. Roon decodes all lossy formats to 24bit it doesn’t mean the source is 24bit.

 

[Yanto]

From what I read, I believe so

Thanks again. I’ll be honest I’m not really any the wiser. But it’s now irrelevant as I’ve let my Apple Music subscription lapse.

 

[Yanto]

Clue being upsampling which is done on the Kefs and has nothing to do with the stream it’s receiving which is lossy AAC. Upsampling is converting one thing to another your not getting any better source it’s still streaming AAC to the speakers. All devices can decode lossy mp3 or AAC to whatever rate they like that’s a design choice but has nothing to do with Airplay2. Roon decodes all lossy formats to 24bit it doesn’t mean the source is 24bit.

So when Kef say they upsample to 24/48 ALAC it’s still lossy? I appreciate what you’re saying about the source being lossy aac still. But they say what I heard was definitely lossless 24/48.
Again it’s irrelevant now because changed systems.
There just seems to be a lot of confusion surrounding Apple Music and Airplay.
Cheers for the information.

 

[Pablihifi]

I don't have golden ears, but I can assure you that listening to music from different services there are notable differences.

 

[Mr Ee]

I don't have golden ears, but I can assure you that listening to music from different services there are notable differences.

Mostly that depends on the service and what masters they have access to.

 

[CrystalGipsy]

I don't have golden ears, but I can assure you that listening to music from different services there are notable differences.

 

[CrystalGipsy]

Yes there can be differences but its LUF targets nothing more for the lossless services. Each service requires different loudness mastering so they can apply their normalisation Different volume levels will always show as sq differences even when the sources are exactly the same. Other than that they are equal if playing the same masters at same bitrate and format.