Ultra room correction results
- Thread starter Cal_Cobra
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Ultra won’t adjust below crossover and wondering why it wasn’t same as amp.
slartibartfast
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Who knows. I hope they don't remove it from the amp as well. I don't understand the logic of not equalising below the crossover. A sub is more likely to be able to handle it than the main speakers.
Is there a setting on app where I can choose that?
slartibartfast
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No. That is ideally what you want, not what you get, yet.
Why would I want that with PEQ?
If I apply it manually then I do know the crossover frequency and I can choose which frequency range to cover and which to ignore. If I let automatic RC do it I'm still more worried about the frequency range than about which speaker is reproducing it.
I know that AVRs often offer independent EQ of sub and mains but never thought it to be beneficial. Just give me 10 band stereo PEQ and I will know best to what frequency range I want to apply it.
Because it should be three channels. Left, Right, and subwoofer. The better EQ should send three sweeps, measure each one, then display each specific speaker response. Whether you use auto or manual entry is up to you. I like the Wiim offers EQ cut off frequency, maximum boost allowed. My processor doesn't do that. So that will be useful.
Yes you can do manual PEQ entry, but they should be on individual channels. You don't want one PEQ on one channel to interfere with any others.
Filters aren't a brick wall so if you EQ say 60hz, you can be in the speaker and subwoofer range. I wouldn't want to be filtering main speakers only for that to be effecting my sub as well.
My AV processor is a Tonewinner AT300, it's basic, but it has individual channel PEQ, 11 for left, right, center. Five for subwoofer. The auto EQ system is terrible. But you can manually enter in PEQ, like the Wiim. But I think the Wiims have some extra PEQ features from the looks of it, specific filters.
I'm using XLR L/R out from the Tonewinner into a amplifier then onto towers. RCA L/R pre out from the tonewinner into another amplifier, into another pair of speakers. So speaker profile for the two sets in Wiim would be brilliant, as for streamer I use "pure" mode, I can switch between the two sets of speaker EQ profiles/delay (which my processor bypasses in pure mode)
Also you might have an external subwoofer EQ, ie minidsp- so you wouldn't want to EQ the subwoofer output- this is my case- as I have minidsp for the subs.
Or you like PEQ, but only for the subwoofer, you like the main speakers without EQ, you want "pure mode" for L/R
Then those who prefer PEQ for mains & subwoofer.
Some AVR's, like Denon and Marantz, have a "all or nothing" EQ, you can't just do sub only, speakers only correction.
Or you like PEQ, but only for the subwoofer, you like the main speakers without EQ, you want "pure mode" for L/R
Then those who prefer PEQ for mains & subwoofer.
Some AVR's, like Denon and Marantz, have a "all or nothing" EQ, you can't just do sub only, speakers only correction.
Yes, that's certainly one way of doing it, but I question it is the only "right" way. We're talking 2 channel stereo here where the sub is not really an independent channel, but just combined stereo. The most important target is to integrate sub and speakers as smoothly as possible. The integration should be reached first, RC comes on top of that (and surely can iron out some remaining roughness).
In a true 5.1 THX system OTOH the sub is just for the LFE channel, which really is a completely independent channel. Hold on, I know that nowadays all receivers offer the option to route bass from the fronts to the sub and this is a very good and effective way to make use of that sub and relieve the mains. It's still not the same.
Two channel PEQ is already announced and it the one feature I've been missing the most, so far.
This could still be handled through frequency range settings. Even if these are not brickwall filters, of course, LR4 is pretty steep already and -24 dB one octave up or down is pretty much negligible in most cases. Would you personally really want to mess with the integration of two different room correction systems? I would not. And I'm sure the vast majority of WiiM's target audience will even less.
To be very clear on this: I don't buy this "DSP is killing the integrity of music and destroying the live-like sparkle" talk, not at all. However, even if I would: As long as the processing is done by the WiiM's only 4 core CPU (including the high pass and low pass filtering) the "damage" done by the DSP has already occurred, even if PEQ is only applied to the signal that's routed to the sub out.
Give me proper per channel 10 band PEQ and have RC analyse one main speaker and the sub (fed the component derived form one channel) and I'll be a happy camper.
Except for
- calibration file import
- per source volume offset instead of per source volume control
- applying predefined EQ settings on top of RC, not alternatively
- ...
Look into Anthem, they make a couple of stereo integrated with room correction.
There are also two options
1) L/R downmixed into one single subwoofer, then filtered somewhere, either at the DSP level (high pass or just filtered but not speakers high passed) or sending sub full range and using the subs own crossover.
2) Dedicated left signal, and dedicated right signal subwoofers
"In a true 5.1 THX system OTOH the sub is just for the LFE channel, which really is a completely independent channel"
Incorrect, in a HT it's
LFE + <speaker crossover = Subwoofer
LFE is the dedicated low effects mix
Bass from each speaker below the crossover point is redirected to the subwoofer(s)
Some AVR's (Denon 8500?) Allow Left, Right subwoofer + LFE subwoofer, or the usual LFE +speaker bass mixing like above.
There are also two options
1) L/R downmixed into one single subwoofer, then filtered somewhere, either at the DSP level (high pass or just filtered but not speakers high passed) or sending sub full range and using the subs own crossover.
2) Dedicated left signal, and dedicated right signal subwoofers
"In a true 5.1 THX system OTOH the sub is just for the LFE channel, which really is a completely independent channel"
Incorrect, in a HT it's
LFE + <speaker crossover = Subwoofer
LFE is the dedicated low effects mix
Bass from each speaker below the crossover point is redirected to the subwoofer(s)
Some AVR's (Denon 8500?) Allow Left, Right subwoofer + LFE subwoofer, or the usual LFE +speaker bass mixing like above.
Option 2 is obviously something completely different, not offered by WiiM so far, so completely pointless to argue about.
Real question: Did you bother reading what I wrote? I've been talking about the THX standard and about what is optional in HT. There is no requirement to mix bass below the crossover frequency to the sub. It just can be done and it makes sense and that's exactly what I wrote.
It would be easier if your didn't feel like you had to fight for your point of view like everyone else was stupid.
Actually option 2 is entirely possible with a Wiim. Use left and right pre outs into two subwoofers (set subwoofer in the wiim to off) which can then be sent off to amplifer. Or go from pre out from wiim pro into amplifier, then out from that into sub. Then use the subwoofers own crossover.
I did that layout (as the sub has it's own high pass) pre out into sub (low level) then that went into 2 channel amp. That's doable with a wiim
Or use high level out from amp into a sub (but there issue with class D into plate amp)
THX standard is 80hz for speakers, 120hz for sub LPF. Speakers are set to 80hz once you press THX (I have a THX AV pre) so <80hz from all channels is redirected to the subwoofer + LFE.
I did that layout (as the sub has it's own high pass) pre out into sub (low level) then that went into 2 channel amp. That's doable with a wiim
Or use high level out from amp into a sub (but there issue with class D into plate amp)
THX standard is 80hz for speakers, 120hz for sub LPF. Speakers are set to 80hz once you press THX (I have a THX AV pre) so <80hz from all channels is redirected to the subwoofer + LFE.
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You're not going to feed the WiiM analogue output to any main speakers then? Yes, you could split that signal of course and then use a MiniDSP to feed another amplifier to feed the mains with a high pass filtered signal. Lots of things one could do. But this is a thread about the WiiM Ultra, which features bass management for one sub exactly.
To the best of my knowledge 120 Hz is not the crossover frequency for the sub. Different crossover frequencies for mains and sub usually don't make any sence. 120 Hz is the brickwall filter for LFE content, which is then split into sub and mains signals at 80 Hz. See here:
The Misunderstood 0.1 LFE Channel in 5.1 Digital Surround Sound - HomeTheaterHifi.com
In 5.1 digital surround sound, the 0.1 channel is called the LFE or Low Frequency Effects channel. While in the commercial system it is referred to as the subwoofer channel, this is not necessarily true for home theater setups.
hometheaterhifi.com
You could have three subs with a Wiim Ultra
1) The dedicated sub pre out
2) Left pre out
3) Right pre out.
Getting each one to work properly could be a nightmare, as I doubt the pre out for the L/R will allow for different delay to the internals of the L/R signal. But it is doable. Plus issues if you enable high pass for the L/R speakers then the signal to the pre out L/R to the subs will be >80hz.
Probably more issues than it's worth but if someone needs it that way..
To the best of my knowledge 120 Hz is not the crossover frequency for the sub. Different crossover frequencies for mains and sub usually don't make any sence. 120 Hz is the brickwall filter for LFE content, which is then split into sub and mains signals at 80 Hz. See here:
The Misunderstood 0.1 LFE Channel in 5.1 Digital Surround Sound - HomeTheaterHifi.com
In 5.1 digital surround sound, the 0.1 channel is called the LFE or Low Frequency Effects channel. While in the commercial system it is referred to as the subwoofer channel, this is not necessarily true for home theater setups.
In a HT system when using bass management in a AVR, the crossovers in the actual subwoofer plate amp should be bypassed or set to maximum.
I use crossover settings other than 80hz for some of my speakers - small 60hz for L/R. Some others are 70, 80 or 90hz. 120hz for sub LPF
I don't doubt that it can be done. It's just not the main focus of owning a WiiM Ultra or WiiM Amp for the typical user.
One could ask for other features like independent high pass and low pass filtering (and this has been requested, of course) but obviously WiiM are not too keen to introduce that kind of flexibility. It also introduces the risk of less technically inclined users getting it wrong and either needing a lot of support or even returning the device because it "didn't sound good". WiiM are targeting low hanging fruits and those challenges that provide most benefit for the average user.
I do have all that flexibility and stereo subs in my main system but I don't expect WiiM to match that at a fraction of the cost.
Yes, and the reason is that the AVR can do the integration better than the sub could do, using symmetrical high pass and low pass filters.
