What products you'd like to see WiiM produce?

[onlyoneme]

"Different design"... Lol.

 

[D1N0]

So, did I hear this correct in test #3 that he was somewhat critical of the Pro’s sound? The Pro’s delivering a bit perfect stream over spdif into his intervening DAC so isn’t the “sound” down to that, not the Pro?

He is comparing it to bit perfect streams from other streamers into the same dac.

 

[onlyoneme]

He is comparing it to bit perfect streams from other streamers into the same dac.

And the same time he is comparing one bit-perfect streamer to the another one tested year ago, and he tells which one sounds better... Not sure if to congratulate or to commiserate.
Did you know that Allo Nirvana is a linear power supply?

 

[Brantome]

He is comparing it to bit perfect streams from other streamers into the same dac.

In which case they’d sound identical - how could it be anything other than that? If it did sound different, he should get a better DAC as the one he has is therefore incapable of handling any issue in the reception of that bit perfect stream

 

[steadyshot]

In which case they’d sound identical - how could it be anything other than that? If it did sound different, he should get a better DAC as the one he has is therefore incapable of handling any issue in the reception of that bit perfect stream

He should ask onlyoneme to suggest him a good dac.

 

[Brantome]

He should ask onlyoneme to suggest him a good dac.

Can we keep the discussion impersonal please? We can disagree without pointedly singling out other members who don’t share our opinion.

 

[onlyoneme]

In which case they’d sound identical - how could it be anything other than that? If it did sound different, he should get a better DAC as the one he has is therefore incapable of handling any issue in the reception of that bit perfect stream

He uses Ares II, hardware that people have complained about compatibility issues with the Pro if I remember correctly. It's also a kind of fifo reclocking DAC, so its behavior can differ for particular streamers when it has to handle clock differences.

 

[Brantome]

He uses Ares II, hardware that people have complained about compatibility issues with the Pro if I remember correctly. It's also a kind of fifo reclocking DAC, so its behavior can differ for particular streamers when it has to handle clock differences.

For me that would make it not fall into the class of a modern competent DAC but I could see that argument being turned round to criticise the source

 

[D1N0]

In which case they’d sound identical - how could it be anything other than that? If it did sound different, he should get a better DAC as the one he has is therefore incapable of handling any issue in the reception of that bit perfect stream

Bitperfectness is not a guarantee for sounding the same. There is also the issue of timing which is handled by the sending device while using s/pdif. There is a reason people want to see a USB or Is2 output in a future WIIM product (I don't think there will be, but who knows). Those methods allow the receiving DAC to handle the clocking. So the clocking done in the WIIM is crucial when using a digital output. This explaines why it sounds different when using the app or the chromecast, or when it is resampling the stream to a lower sample rate. The more the Pro has to do, the worse clocking gets. It probably interferes with the effectiveness of digital filtering in the DAC.

 

[onlyoneme]

For me that would make it not fall into the class of a modern competent DAC but I could see that argument being turned round to criticise the source

Modern DAC or not, I just don't trust his statements about perceived differences in sound quality.

 

[onlyoneme]

Bitperfectness is not a guarantee for sounding the same.

It is as far as the receiver uses the same clock as the sender.

There is also the issue of timing which is handled by the sending device while using s/pdif. There is a reason people want to see a USB or Is2 output in a future WIIM product (I don't think there will be, but who knows). Those methods allow the receiving DAC to handle the clocking. So the clocking done in the WIIM is crucial when using a digital output.

A DAC can sync to the recovered clock. A well designed DAC will do that with a proper jitter suppression to maintain bit-perfect path in the digital domain.

This explaines why it sounds different when using the app or the chromecast

Source of the file doesn't matter if the audio stream is unaltered during the decoding process.

The more the Pro has to do, the worse clocking gets. It probably interferes with the effectiveness of digital filtering in the DAC.

Can you explain this further?

 

[Brantome]

Explain it if you can.

As already mentioned above, please keep comments a bit less pointed - “if you can” is unnecessarily provocative.

 

[D1N0]

It is as far as the receiver uses the same clock as the sender.

A DAC can sync to the recovered clock. A well designed DAC will do that with a proper jitter suppression to maintain bit-perfect path in the digital domain.

Source of the file doesn't matter if the audio stream is unaltered during the decoding process.

Explain it if you can.

Everything that causes more processing will affect the sound. The higher end your gear is the more critical it becomes. On lower end gear there are usually more disturbing factors that will mask differences between different streamers. Meanwhile this will all sound okay to the average Joe so many companies will see no reason to invest in perfection when good enough is good enough. We've seen this throughout audio history.

 

[onlyoneme]

As already mentioned above, please keep comments a bit less pointed - “if you can” is unnecessarily provocative.

If you can suggest something less "provocative" I will use it instead. English is not my native language as you could see already.

 

[onlyoneme]

So, and I explicit don't mean it as a provocation: Did you never had or heard a component which sounded good for your ears and has more or less bad figures? Or is your conviction that the better measured is the better choice in each case because it can not be what is not allowed to be?
If you do not trust in "perceived" differences I am sceptic about such a black vs white.

All the time I face situations when something seems to sound better or worse than something else, or lets say "different". Sometimes it's a fact, sometimes just an impression.
I do not trust statements of people regarding perceived differences when they compare a sound of the device with a sound of the device they tested a year ago.

 

[Brantome]

If you can suggest something less "provocative" I will use it instead. English is not my native language as you could see already.

Thanks. “Can you explain this further?” would have been sufficient. “If you can” comes across as patronising

 

[onlyoneme]

Everything that causes more processing will affect the sound.

Do you think that the audio stream sent from my PC to my DAC will differ when my PC CPU is occupied in 10% and in 15% for example?
There is quite strong difference between "it can affect" and "it will affect".

 

[onlyoneme]

The higher end your gear is the more critical it becomes. On lower end gear there are usually more disturbing factors that will mask differences between different streamers.

Not in the digital domain. Modern streamers and DACs have achieved a sufficient level to deliver an unaltered audio stream from the source to the DA conversion process even in case of relatively inexpensive devices.

 

[Smartplug]

Sounds falls on subjective and objective and as standard bearer of sounds starts at measurements then those get into users ears. Those information gets to the brain and it’s on them if they like it or not. Some don’t like how it’s was measured well and want to spice things up like adding eq etc. I like the sounds of tube despite its high distortion. It’s pleasing to my ear in comparison with solid states that sound to generous. This were things get sour everyone has personal taste on music and often pick and criticize them. Does cheap audio man use measurements? He has lots of followers based on listening test not measurements.

 

[onlyoneme]

Sounds are objective. Their interpretation by our brains is subjective.
My audio path can sound better to me in the morning and worse in the evening, but it means nothing regarding the true performance.

The biggest manipulation is when someone declares perceived impressions as facts without any unbiased proof of existence.
It's fine when someone says he prefers something over something else. It's not fine when personal impressions are used for statements about objective differences without any evidence and when other proofs are clearly against it.