Also running LS50 Meta's, paired with 2 SVS SB1000 subs
EddNog
Major Contributor
That should be a very nice subwoofer. When you go to integrate it, are you using the bass management of your WiiM streamer? WiiM's automatic time-sync is very handy and, in my experience, does a quite good job. This will be particularly handy for your new sub because the SVS subs with DSP have (on average) ~7.2ms due to the DSP, but the WiiM will have no problem at all compensating for that (delaying the main speakers).
Assuming you're using the WiiM for bass management, here's my suggestion:
1) decide whether you're looking to maximize imaging accuracy versus bottom-end extension and weight. I say this because if you are able to/if it is practical enough, and you're aiming for the best imaging accuracy possible, placing the sub perfectly equidistance (centered) between your speakers will allow you to get the best overall stereo effect (will not suffer any chance of localization of bass sounds either to the left or to the right). If you are able to place the sub as close as you can towards the back wall behind your system, you can still get good room gain. Conversely if you just want to maximize extension and weight, a corner spot would yield that result
2) obviously, place the sub where it would get you the result you seek most. SB-1000 Pro is front-firing, so if you aim the driver to fire towards the MLP, you can maximize upper bass punch, especially if the sub is placed dead center. If you're placing the sub in a corner somewhere, you may want to consider pointing it some direction away from the main listening position, to help reduce the likelihood of localizing the sub while listening
3) Download the SVS app and also HouseCurve for your smart phone or tablet (it is FREE!), hook everything up, and set your crossover. If you're putting the sub in the corner, you probably want to keep crossover at 80Hz or lower. If the sub is placed dead center, you can safely run the crossover higher, as high as 110 or even 120Hz, to further improve upper bass punch. All that said, it also depends on the bass output capabilities of your main loudspeakers. Make sure to use the Subwoofer/Speaker Sync function in the Subwoofer panel of the WiiM Home App to time-align the sub to the speakers!
4) Run a sweep through HouseCurve, use you finger to slide a marker line to the crossover frequency to help visualize the crossover point easier. Is any part of the curve where the sub is playing significantly lower than the speaker portion of the curve? If so, use the SVS app to raise the volume a bit, run another sweep, take another look, until the volume of the sub looks reasonably matched to the speakers--keep in mind that you can go a little high volume with the sub, and the next step will speak to why
5) the SVS app has a PEQ section. SVS DSP has 3 user-controlled PEQ filters you can apply, with a maximum boost pf +6dB and a maximum cut of -12dB. Use the PEQ feature to get the subwoofer's response as close to flat as possible at the main listening position. You'd be surprised how well those 3 PEQ filters can work!
6) after dialing all that in, go ahead and perform WiiM RoomFit correction to dial in the last piece. I highly recommend limiting boosts to no more than +5dB, Q factors no higher than 6, and for the correction range, many people recommend not going over 300Hz, although personally I think it is safe to go up to 2,000Hz. Your call there.
Enjoy!
-Ed
Danny Linguini
Member
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- Nov 30, 2024
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Great info here - I will definitely follow these steps! I do use the WiiM Home app’s bass management and speaker-sub sync. I might save the SVS EQ-in for later after I’ve had some time to digest it all. I’m excited to hear how a *good* sub sounds in this setup.
slartibartfast
Major Contributor
- Joined
- Apr 18, 2024
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Bear in mind that the speaker-sub sync only works correctly when the WiiM device is in your listening position as it uses the microphone in the device.
EddNog
Major Contributor
Wait, so it does not use the phone mic or the mic attached to the phone? Damn, this is horrendous. I sit 10 feet away!
-Ed
slartibartfast
Major Contributor
- Joined
- Apr 18, 2024
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I think we all assumed it would but WiiM used the device mic. It probably works OK to eliminate DSP delays but not to optimise the response around the crossover.Wait, so it does not use the phone mic or the mic attached to the phone? Damn, this is horrendous. I sit 10 feet away!
-Ed
EddNog
Major Contributor
This is very complicated (for me). My big subwoofer handling LFE infra/low bass is to the far left, one of the small subs handling a left channel band between my big sub and my left speaker is close to the big sub, on the left, then the other small sub which plays a right channel band of upper bass sits to the right, similar but not exactly same distance from the WiiM itself, so the WiiM is sitting between the two subs that need to be time aligned to the big sub, and the difference between that distance from the big sub to the WiiM and the distance of either of the small subs to the WiiM is significantly bigger than the difference in distance between the big sub to the MLP and the distance of either small sub to the MLP. As in the big sub's acoustic center is probably 2' farther from the WiiM Ultra than the acoustic center of either small sub (to which it is crossed to), but the distance of the big sub is probably less than 1' farther from the main listening position than either of the small subs, because the WiiM forms the center of one side of the triangle, whereas the MLP is an opposite corner of the triangle formed by the subs.
Like, black circle is PC-2000 Pro, purple squares are 3000 Minis, orange rectangles (I can't figure out how to toe them in) are LS50 Metas, red square is WiiM Ultra, and blue arrow is I (with grey room boundaries):
-Ed
Attachments
Yes, your cases is certainly special.
It tried to keep up with all the configuration changes to your system during the last months (I really did) but I must admit that I failed. Which means: I have no ideal how exactly you feed the single PC-2000 Pro and the pair of 3000 Minis from your Ultra. The Ultra is back and you do use its subwoofer output, right?
If all subs are ultimately fed from the Ultra's subwoofer output then obviously the Ultra alone can only correct the latency for one distance to the main listening place, not two. If you don't use the Ultra's sub out then it's bass management is out anyway, obviously. The base principle remains, one (set of) output(s) can only add a single latency value. But since you're explicitly talking about the auto-sync feature I think that the Ultra is still in.
The slightly different distance from the Ultra to each of your 3000 Minis probably doesn't matter much anyway. The latency resolution is currently limited to 1 ms steps so any difference < 34 cm/13.5" cannot be corrected for, anyway.
Also, the lower the crossover frequency (and thus the longer the wavelength) the less influence any misalignment will have. Looking at your graphs I think there's probably not much you had to correct for.
And I will go one step further. I will take back my previous comment implying that adding a delay to make up for the distance between WiiM Ultra and listening position would be somehow easy to do. No, I think it's not exactly easy (sorry for implying the contrary) and I'll even go one step further and propose that the WiiM's auto-sync result is a good enough approximation in most real world cases.
EddNog
Major Contributor
At the moment, I have reverted to using the WiiM bass management to integrate the PC-2000 Pro at 60Hz to the rest of the chain. The rest of the chain being a miniDSP Flex (digital I/O version) which has one DAC feeding the speakers and a second DAC feeding the two small subs, which are crossed over to the speakers at 160Hz. The miniDSP applies DIRAC Live to the speakers and small subs, and an Anti-Mode 8033S-II room corrects the PC-2000 Pro, so only using WiiM bass management and not RoomFit.Yes, your cases is certainly special.
It tried to keep up with all the configuration changes to your system during the last months (I really did) but I must admit that I failed. Which means: I have no ideal how exactly you feed the single PC-2000 Pro and the pair of 3000 Minis from your Ultra. The Ultra is back and you do use its subwoofer output, right?
If all subs are ultimately fed from the Ultra's subwoofer output then obviously the Ultra alone can only correct the latency for one distance to the main listening place, not two. If you don't use the Ultra's sub out then it's bass management is out anyway, obviously. The base principle remains, one (set of) output(s) can only add a single latency value. But since you're explicitly talking about the auto-sync feature I think that the Ultra is still in.
The slightly different distance from the Ultra to each of your 3000 Minis probably doesn't matter much anyway. The latency resolution is currently limited to 1 ms steps so any difference < 34 cm/13.5" cannot be corrected for, anyway.
Also, the lower the crossover frequency (and thus the longer the wavelength) the less influence any misalignment will have. Looking at your graphs I think there's probably not much you had to correct for.
And I will go one step further. I will take back my previous comment implying that adding a delay to make up for the distance between WiiM Ultra and listening position would be somehow easy to do. No, I think it's not exactly easy (sorry for implying the contrary) and I'll even go one step further and propose that the WiiM's auto-sync result is a good enough approximation in most real world cases.
-Ed
BowsAndArrows
Senior Member
if you hadn't already picked a sub and if you were based in europe. i would have suggested a BK electronics sub like the P12-300SB-PR. https://www.bkelec.com/HiFi/Sub_Woofers/P12300SB-PR.html
decent specs and generally well received by reviewers and customers alike...
