WiiM Ultra with Integrated Amp

[stalefish_43]

Forgive me for this question as I’m still somewhat a newbie to the world of hifi. I currently have a Yamaha AS501 paired with a turntable and a WiiM Pro for streaming. I mainly listen to vinyl but the rest of the family prefer using the WiiM. I recently picked up a WiiM Ultra as the phono preamp plus better DAC sounded intriguing. My question is as my Yamaha is an integrated, it has a built in DAC (Texas Instruments PCM5101). If I’m running the WiiM Ultra through the analogue input (line 1) of my Yamaha, am I bypassing the internal DAC and hearing the DAC from the WiiM or am I negating the improved DAC in the WiiM and hearing the Yamaha? The AS501 has no option to use it strictly as a power amplifier.

 

[rccarguy]

If you're using analogue out on the Ultra, into the Yamaha analogue input then you're using the DAC in the Wiim
If you're using digital out on the Ultra, into the Yamaha digital input then you're using the DAC in the Yamaha

 

[harkpabst]

At least on paper the Ultra's DAC is miles ahead of the aging PCM5101 in the Yamaha. You can still try out for yourself, of course.

 

[stalefish_43]

If you're using analogue out on the Ultra, into the Yamaha analogue input then you're using the DAC in the Wiim
If you're using digital out on the Ultra, into the Yamaha digital input then you're using the DAC in the Yamaha

Thank you for clearing that up!

 

[bernard23]

Forgive me for this question as I’m still somewhat a newbie to the world of hifi. I currently have a Yamaha AS501 paired with a turntable and a WiiM Pro for streaming. I mainly listen to vinyl but the rest of the family prefer using the WiiM. I recently picked up a WiiM Ultra as the phono preamp plus better DAC sounded intriguing. My question is as my Yamaha is an integrated, it has a built in DAC (Texas Instruments PCM5101). If I’m running the WiiM Ultra through the analogue input (line 1) of my Yamaha, am I bypassing the internal DAC and hearing the DAC from the WiiM or am I negating the improved DAC in the WiiM and hearing the Yamaha? The AS501 has no option to use it strictly as a power amplifier.

I have an Ultra and A-S501 too, just a bit of advice / experience. You won't be able to use the sub correction in the room correction settings for the Ultra, you'll either need to manually set it up attached to the sub out on the Yamaha or as I've done, replace the Yamaha with a power amp and use the Ultra as a preamp.

Edit: ignore this advice it's incorrect!!
I'd bought a pair of Fosi V3 mono blocks to replace the A-S501 but realised once I'd got them that I could use the Ultra as a preamp (ie volume control, room correction including sub management) and use the Yamaha as a power amp effectively one with infinitely variable gain.
I returned the Fosi (I actually preferred the sound of the Yamaha) and have a low cost, high performing system. I have long since stopped jumping down the audiophile rabbit holes of spending logarithmically increasing amounts of cash on upgrading hardware, and this setup works perfectly well for me.

 

[AudioPervert]

Ahh Yamaha AS501 , Was my first beginner amp so this got a little nostalgic too me, enjoy the amp.

 

[Doublej]

Play-Fi is this

Technology

DTS Play-Fi is a premium wireless audio ecosystem for whole-home music and TV audio, supporting high-resolution and sub-millisecond playback accuracy.

play-fi.com

 

[harkpabst]

Play-Fi is this

Technology

DTS Play-Fi is a premium wireless audio ecosystem for whole-home music and TV audio, supporting high-resolution and sub-millisecond playback accuracy.

play-fi.com

Yes, but how does that standard relate to the optical input of the DAC? There's some info missing about the other hardware in use, at least.

Also, the question about different or same optical cable still needs to be answered.

 

[mgs]

I just received my Ultra and am running it through an analog input in my Yamaha as-801. I find the dac in the WiiM sounds better than the dac in the Yamaha. Should this be the case? The Yamaha has a Sabre ES9010K2M while the Ultra has the ES9038Q2M. Is the Ultra's Sabre dac better than the AS-801s?

 

[dangermouse]

I find the dac in the WiiM sounds better than the dac in the Yamaha. Should this be the case?

If it sounds better to you, that's what matters. Whether it 'should' or not is irrelevant.

 

[Kampernaut]

I

Is the Ultra's Sabre dac better than the AS-801s?

It’s newer, so ESS presumably think they have made improvements compared to the older version. You can read about the differences on ESS’s website. Whether or not they are responsible for what you perceive to be better sound is debatable. The DAC chip itself isn’t the only part of the circuitry that influences the sound from the digital stream. I understand that the clock parts amongst others matter too.

As @dangermouse said, what you like is all that matters.

If you haven’t already, have a crack at the room correction feature. That is likely to yield an even more noticeable effect.

 

[Smartplug]

I just received my Ultra and am running it through an analog input in my Yamaha as-801. I find the dac in the WiiM sounds better than the dac in the Yamaha. Should this be the case? The Yamaha has a Sabre ES9010K2M while the Ultra has the ES9038Q2M. Is the Ultra's Sabre dac better than the AS-801s?

Don’t pay too much attention on which one is newer what matter which one sound better to you and enjoy your music.

 

[Smartplug]

Back in the days when wiim working on bit perfect out everyone stick on it. Now with the release of rc majority want rc over bit perfect. It could take rc into the level once independent peq is release.

 

[san1]

I have an Ultra and A-S501 too, just a bit of advice / experience. You won't be able to use the sub correction in the room correction settings for the Ultra, you'll either need to manually set it up attached to the sub out on the Yamaha or as I've done, replace the Yamaha with a power amp and use the Ultra as a preamp.

Edit: ignore this advice it's incorrect!!
I'd bought a pair of Fosi V3 mono blocks to replace the A-S501 but realised once I'd got them that I could use the Ultra as a preamp (ie volume control, room correction including sub management) and use the Yamaha as a power amp effectively one with infinitely variable gain.
I returned the Fosi (I actually preferred the sound of the Yamaha) and have a low cost, high performing system. I have long since stopped jumping down the audiophile rabbit holes of spending logarithmically increasing amounts of cash on upgrading hardware, and this setup works perfectly well for me.

Hi can i know how you run it so the subwoofer management works. Ive been wanting to get this setup for my as-801 but everyone have been telling me the sub management wont be able to work. I would like to hpf my mains bass below 80hz to the subs

 

[san1]

I just received my Ultra and am running it through an analog input in my Yamaha as-801. I find the dac in the WiiM sounds better than the dac in the Yamaha. Should this be the case? The Yamaha has a Sabre ES9010K2M while the Ultra has the ES9038Q2M. Is the Ultra's Sabre dac better than the AS-801s?

If i’m not wrong only the USB output on the As-801 uses the Sabre ES9010K2M so yes the ultra one is better

 

[bernard23]

Hi can i know how you run it so the subwoofer management works. Ive been wanting to get this setup for my as-801 but everyone have been telling me the sub management wont be able to work. I would like to hpf my mains bass below 80hz to the subs

You have to connect you sub to the Ultra, not the Yamaha. You also have to use the Ultra in variable output mode, and use the volume control of the Ultra NOT the Yamaha. I set my Yamaha amp to an arbitrary volume position of 12 o'clock, which is more than loud enough as a max volume setting. I don't change that, it's now 'fixed".

Once the Yamaha volume knob is fixed, I then do room correction and eq in the Ultra. I can adjust the volume on the sub itself and I can adjust it in the Wiim app and do that by ear. I've set the crossover to 75Hz in Wiim app, and set it to 85Hz on my sub itself so the Ultra is controlling the crossover frequency.

Hope that helps.

 

[rccarguy]

You have to connect you sub to the Ultra, not the Yamaha. You also have to use the Ultra in variable output mode, and use the volume control of the Ultra NOT the Yamaha. I set my Yamaha amp to an arbitrary volume position of 12 o'clock, which is more than loud enough as a max volume setting. I don't change that, it's now 'fixed".

Once the Yamaha volume knob is fixed, I then do room correction and eq in the Ultra. I can adjust the volume on the sub itself and I can adjust it in the Wiim app and do that by ear. I've set the crossover to 75Hz in Wiim app, and set it to 85Hz on my sub itself so the Ultra is controlling the crossover frequency.

Hope that helps.

You don't want to have cascading crossovers. If you are sending filtered signal to the sub, you don't want another one in the sub.

 

[harkpabst]

Yep.

I've set the crossover to 75Hz in Wiim app, and set it to 85Hz on my sub itself so the Ultra is controlling the crossover frequency.

Rule of thumb: The higher, the better. A 4th order LR filter is not a brickwall filter. You want the slope of the effective acoustic high pass filter of the mains to match the slope of the effective acoustic low pass filter of the sub as closely as possible. So, usually you don't want the sub's own filter to interfere, since the filtering in the WiiM is symmetrical.

There might be exceptions in rare cases where the acoustic high pass and low pass slopes don't add up as cleanly as you would like them to due to limits of the speakers or room effects. But even in this case, just turning the filter knob on the sub would be shooting in the dark.

 

[bernard23]

85Hz is the highest setting on my sub, there is no option to switch it off! I have tried lowering the desired x over f in Ultra, but it didn't improve the sound, and all I'm doing is adding load onto my main speakers and amp, which I'm trying to avoid.

 

[slartibartfast]

85Hz is the highest setting on my sub, there is no option to switch it off! I have tried lowering the desired x over f in Ultra, but it didn't improve the sound, and all I'm doing is adding load onto my main speakers and amp, which I'm trying to avoid.

Which sub is it? Does it have an LFE setting?