WiiM Ultra

Updated on 5/25/2024

Check out this fuller thread about our official announcement of the WiiM Ultra - https://forum.wiimhome.com/threads/meet-wiim-ultra-the-digital-hub-for-your-music.3487/

Updated on 4/19/2024

Hi Team,

We're excited to give you a sneak peek at the WiiM Ultra, your future go-to digital hub for all things music! We're putting the final touches on this innovative product and are on track for a Q2 release. Stay tuned for more updates as we gear up for launch!




Original message by Brantome:
As mentioned in a user reply from the WiiM/Linkplay CEO on the WiiM Fan Page on Facebook, WiiM are developing a new device called the WiiM Ultra which will have a screen, aluminium case and USB audio output. It should be available Q2 2024, so a good five to six months away.

Guess @Smartplug is due a prize (e.g. I'll lay off gently ribbing them about their constant 'when' questions) as I think they first suggested that name a while ago

That's the entirety of the information I have, but WiiM do say they'll release more details in due course.

 

[wiimamp user]

All this talk of measurements, yet no-one seems to think about what it might actaully sound like.

This is why I end up preferring vintage kit, it sounds nice, and is simple to use.

Absolutely agree..all this talk about measurments.
Let them talk..one can trust the manifacturers with their knowledge and what they can create.
One could search reviews then..but there is a room,there are speakers.

Wiim does a very very good job i can confirm it..just by listening to the amp.
Think about all the advantages of the functionality WIIM offers..and is actually working.
Think about the price.. hail WIIM.

 

[canard]

and me who prepared like an idiot to change the 2 aop of my "plus"...
frustrating....

 

[cooky560]

Wiim does a very very good job i can confirm it..just by listening to the amp.
Think about all the advantages of the functionality WIIM offers..and is actually working.
Think about the price.. hail WIIM.

The last line makes this sound sarcastic however, it's the simple truth, what matters, other than how it sounds?

 

[Brantome]

I do hope WiiM release the Ultra soon because all the waiting and frustration just seems to be fostering “another day, another spat on the WiiM Ultra thread", with discussions which (if I’m being charitable) are perhaps obliquely on topic, but quickly explode into unstoppable forces meeting immovable objects in a lengthy back and forth battle better fought on the fields of audiosciencereview than here.

So, could we all please stick strictly on topic re the Ultra, even although all that could be said about what it might or might not be has probably already been said several times over?

Thanks

 

[wiimamp user]

The last line makes this sound sarcastic however, it's the simple truth, what matters, other than how it sounds?

How it sounds is most important totally agree with you.
I dont care about the measurements ..
@Brantome is right..back on topic: The Ultra.

 

[canard]

I do hope WiiM release the Ultra soon because all the waiting and frustration just seems to be fostering “another day, another spat on the WiiM Ultra” thread, with discussions which (if I’m being charitable) are perhaps obliquely on topic, but quickly explode into unstoppable forces meeting immovable objects in a lengthy back and forth battle better fought on the fields of audiosciencereview than here.

So, could we all please stick strictly on topic re the Ultra, even although all that could be said about what it might or might not be has probably already been said several times over?

Thanks

the """""godwin point"""""" of "post-asr" hifi....

 

[grovkalle]

Here's a breakdown on the measurability and design improvement in these areas:

Measurable (But Not with Standard Metrics)

• Transient Response: While not typically included in basic DAC specifications, transient response is measurable. Specialized tests with square waves and impulse responses can reveal how quickly and accurately a DAC responds to sudden shifts in the signal.
• Jitter: Jitter can be measured with specific equipment and software. The resulting measurements reveal the amount and types of timing errors present.
• Power Supply Quality: Noise levels, ripple, and stability of a power supply can be measured with standard electronics instruments like oscilloscopes and multimeters.

Difficult to Directly Measure

• Microdynamics: While somewhat correlated with transient response, precisely quantifying "microdynamics" is challenging. There isn't a single, universally agreed-upon metric for this aspect of sound reproduction.
• Analog Output Stage: While you can measure standard characteristics of an amplifier stage (frequency response, distortion, etc.), capturing the subtle sonic nuances introduced by specific design choices is harder to quantify.
• Psychological Factors: The subjective experience of listening is inherently impossible to put into pure metrics.

How Engineers Improve These Aspects

Even when direct measurement is difficult, engineers rely on several strategies to enhance the performance of their DACs in these areas:

• Extensive Research & Development: Designing high-performance audio circuits is a continuous process of research, experimentation, and refinement. Engineers draw upon existing knowledge and research related to circuit design, power supply optimization, component selection, and more.
• Listening Tests: Experienced engineers and audiophiles often use critical listening sessions to evaluate and compare different DAC designs. While subjective, these tests help guide refinements that might not be apparent from measurements alone.
• Focus on Specific Measurements: Even if the overall subjective quality is complex to measure, engineers focus on improving those measurable aspects that correlate with better sound, like reducing jitter levels or enhancing transient response.
• Component Selection and Circuit Design: Careful attention to parts quality (capacitors, resistors, op-amps), circuit layouts, signal paths, and grounding schemes play a significant role in optimizing a DAC's performance, even if not captured by simple measurements.

In Summary

While not every aspect of a DAC's influence on sound quality has a clean corresponding metric, engineers utilize a combination of measurable targets, specialized tests, subjective evaluation, and design experience to continuously improve their designs beyond what standard DAC measurements might reveal.

Techniques

Jitter Reduction

• High-Quality Master Clock: The heart of a DAC's timing accuracy is its clock source. Precision oscillators with ultra-low phase noise minimize jitter right at the source.
• Re-clocking: Some DACs employ re-clocking circuits. These essentially rebuild the digital audio stream using a cleaner, more accurate clock, significantly reducing incoming jitter from the source.
• Buffering: A data buffer temporarily stores the incoming digital audio. This can help smooth out momentary fluctuations and inconsistencies in the data stream, reducing the impact of jitter.
• Careful PCB Design: Engineers meticulously plan the circuit board layout to isolate sensitive clock signals and minimize interference pathways that could introduce jitter.

Transient Response Optimization

• Output Stage Bandwidth: Ensuring the DAC's analog output stage has a wide frequency bandwidth allows it to accurately reproduce fast-rising edges of musical signals (like a sudden drum hit).
• Feedback Loops: Judicious use of negative feedback loops in the analog stage can improve linearity and responsiveness, enhancing transient accuracy.
• Component Choice: Selection of capacitors and resistors with low parasitic inductance and capacitance helps preserve the integrity of fast-changing signals.

Power Supply Enhancement

• Low-Noise Regulators: Utilizing voltage regulators specifically designed for low noise minimizes ripple and fluctuations in the power rails feeding the audio circuitry.
• Isolation and Filtering: Employing multiple power supply stages with isolation between them (using transformers or separate regulators) keeps noise from digital sections from contaminating sensitive analog signals.
• Capacitor Selection: Careful choice of capacitor types (material, value) helps filter noise and provide a stable energy reserve for demanding musical passages.

Other Considerations

• Differential Circuitry: Using balanced, differential signal paths throughout the DAC can inherently reject common-mode noise and interference, contributing to a cleaner signal.
• Materials and Construction: Even the choice of chassis materials and internal shielding can subtly influence the electromagnetic environment in which the DAC operates, potentially impacting microdynamics and noise performance.

Important Note: These techniques come with cost and design complexity trade-offs. Striking the right balance between performance, features, and price point is part of the art of DAC engineering.

If you remove the phycological aspect from the equation I would say analog output stage is one of the mayor things
that can separate how a DAC sounds. Far more than a power supply or some fancy re-clocking or "M-scaler" (looking at you Chord)

 

[steadyshot]

I prefer to trust this AI indeed which is pretty advanced , a lot of smart people worked hard to achieve that breakthrough, this AI which takes into consideration many varied sources (not one) to devise an answer.

 

[Wiimer]

Maybe, support team announced it too early.

I think it was their good intentions, but we are more boys than they think.
So, my heart is 18 years old now.

 

[jeromeof]

I prefer to trust this AI indeed which is pretty advanced , a lot of smart people worked hard to achieve that breakthrough, this AI which takes into consideration many varied sources (not one) to devise an answer.

While AI tools are amazing you should absolutely not trust what they say - they make stuff up but specifically they are trained on what other people have said on the internet previously and there is allot of mis-information on the internet.

 

[steadyshot]

While AI tools are amazing you should absolutely not trust what they say - they make stuff up but specifically they are trained on what other people have said on the internet previously and there is allot of mis-information on the internet.

I know. But it is trained well and most of the times makes a good judgement and uses good filters to separate the bs from actuals

 

[Fitzliputzli]

It might be a good idea to handle AI like I do with lawyers. You need at least two that one has to look after the other ;-)

 

[canard]

Maybe, support team announced it too early.

I think it was their good intentions, but we are more boys than they think.
So, my heart is 18 years old now.

a form of marketing...
you position yourself on hold and don't look elsewhere", "with a heart full of hope"
;-)

 

[Steve Woodhouse]

View attachment 5334

Just because you can get AI to produce something saying the world isn't flat, doesn’t mean you can’t get it to say it is.

 

[Brantome]

Maybe, support team announced it too early.

I think it was their good intentions, but we are more boys than they think.
So, my heart is 18 years old now.

I think there’s some truth in that - I found it strange that their CEO mentioned it in an email to a user even before the WiiM Amp was in anyone’s hands. Ok, I guess we knew they were working on more models but to mention the name and high level details of the model after the one about to be released perhaps was a bit premature in hindsight.

 

[Steve Woodhouse]

I do hope WiiM release the Ultra soon because all the waiting and frustration just seems to be fostering “another day, another spat on the WiiM Ultra” thread, with discussions which (if I’m being charitable) are perhaps obliquely on topic, but quickly explode into unstoppable forces meeting immovable objects in a lengthy back and forth battle better fought on the fields of audiosciencereview than here.

So, could we all please stick strictly on topic re the Ultra, even although all that could be said about what it might or might not be has probably already been said several times over?

Thanks

Totally agree.

But if someone asks a question (is DAC A better than DAC B?) you can’t leave it unanswered.

But yes, roll on the announcement.

 

[canard]

Totally agree.

But if someone asks a question (is DAC A better than DAC B?) you can’t leave it unanswered.

But yes, roll on the announcement.

and what do I do with my two AOP 1611!!!

should have told me all this sooner!!!

 

[Steve Woodhouse]

I think there’s some truth in that - I found it strange that their CEO mentioned it in an email to a user even before the WiiM Amp was in anyone’s hands. Ok, I guess we knew they were working on more models but to mention the name and high level details of the model after the one about to be released perhaps was a bit premature in hindsight.

On the other hand, can you even begin to imagine how much broader the speculation would be if we’d had nothing.

I’m guessing the next release will be a WiiM Teapot!

 

[canard]

On the other hand, can you even begin to imagine how much broader the speculation would be if we’d had nothing.

I’m guessing the next release will be a WiiM Teapot!

teapot for after waking up thanks to....

WiiM Wake-up Light | Your Perfect Bedside Companion

Experience mornings like never before with the WiiM Wake-up Light. Let it be your perfect bedside companion, awakening you gently and setting the tone for the day ahead.

www.wiimhome.com

;-)

 

[Mike in NY]

Regarding ‘measurements don’t tell the whole story’. Yes they do.

If you think there’s some other aspect of sound reproduction and human hearing, it’s up to you to specify what that is.

More in a mo.

On transient response, the Pro Plus has been measured at up to 20kHz. How rapid do you want? Because any more rapid is beyond the threshold of human hearing.

Jitter - that's been measured and covered.

Power supply, that's snake oil.

Analogue output stage - the measurements taken are digital in to analogue out (inclusive) so the analogue outs are already contained within the measurement.

Psychological factors - sure, if you feel grump, that might inhibit your listening. That has nothing to do with the performance of the DAC.

Key takeway - stop believing snake oil. Follow the science. If you're not prepared to do so, please stop taking medicines or flying on planes, because they work and have been tested using the scientific method, as have the above tests.

Maybe if you feel happy your plane is more likely to fly?

Why not just take this whole act over to the alter at ASR and continue the circle jerk over there? Your crusade does not belong on WiiM's hosted site where they are readying a new model that you actually know close to nothing about, because those details haven't been released.

Power supply is snake oil? Ask any real electronic design engineer if that is actually the case, they'll get a good laugh out of that.