WiiM Ultra

Updated on 5/25/2024

Check out this fuller thread about our official announcement of the WiiM Ultra - https://forum.wiimhome.com/threads/meet-wiim-ultra-the-digital-hub-for-your-music.3487/

Updated on 4/19/2024

Hi Team,

We're excited to give you a sneak peek at the WiiM Ultra, your future go-to digital hub for all things music! We're putting the final touches on this innovative product and are on track for a Q2 release. Stay tuned for more updates as we gear up for launch!




Original message by Brantome:
As mentioned in a user reply from the WiiM/Linkplay CEO on the WiiM Fan Page on Facebook, WiiM are developing a new device called the WiiM Ultra which will have a screen, aluminium case and USB audio output. It should be available Q2 2024, so a good five to six months away.

Guess @Smartplug is due a prize (e.g. I'll lay off gently ribbing them about their constant 'when' questions) as I think they first suggested that name a while ago

That's the entirety of the information I have, but WiiM do say they'll release more details in due course.

 

[Matt_Holland]

I think the elephant in the room is price. If the Ultra costs any where near 800 pounds then they will be shooting themselves in the foot. I believe many people just want a Pro plus with a USB output.

I think they want Pro Plus with HDMI ARC actually. The USB in/out is a niche use case by comparison.

 

[RKM]

Hm. XLR doesn’t have much to do with the price bracket, just with the *type* of gear you have. With XLR, all you’d need was a pair of (entry level, if you insist) Neumann or Genelec active monitors on top, and be happy for the rest of your days. Three devices. Ultra, left speaker, right speaker.

Wouldn‘t be surprised if there was an Ultra Pro on the horizon, with XLR.

Exactly! Or just AES dig out and no DAC at all (most of the modern actives perform D/A, no need for a DAC)

 

[harkpabst]

My opinions/interests do not matter in the grand scheme of things. I simply represent a fairly large number of WiiM customers who just want WiiM's excellent streamer with a clean USB out port.

Let us know once you have finally decided.

Exactly! Or just AES dig out and no DAC at all (most of the modern actives perform D/A, no need for a DAC)

That means more boxes, so not exactly "exactly", right?

I promise I won't post to this thread until the Ultra hit the market because this discussion continues to be ridiculous.

 

[bherren]

Why not just use rca to xlr adapters?

Then you are still limited to 2Vrms meaning you have to up the gain on the amp or active speakers and increase noise/distortion. You also lose the advantage of balanced output in term of RF noise avoidance etc...

The DAC chip probably has a balanced output, I suspect the difficulty for WiiM was more around size/space at the back of the case. XLR connectors are big and the alternative Jack connectors are deep. Plus they would have wanted to keep RCA as an option for most users thus using even more space.

 

[GiBo61]

Yup. If you want to push me, maybe a coax input too.

Maybe 2 sub outs.

Maybe stereo PEQ/room correction, though I’d note the text of what we’ve said says ‘advanced room correction’, so who knows.

Maybe dedicated calibration mic to hook up to the USB input (still possible this will come with one, or be able to be upgraded to one).

And I’m really stretching now.

Yes, it's a pity there is no coax input!

 

[cooky560]

Then you are still limited to 2Vrms meaning you have to up the gain on the amp or active speakers and increase noise/distortion. You also lose the advantage of balanced output in term of RF noise avoidance etc...

Why is this an issue? I have devices that output at 150mv (0.15v) and my amps have no trouble getting them to 90+ db, just a bit further around the dial.

Some of those amps are only 20 watters.

A typical speaker of say 88db sensitivity is capable of outputting 88db at 1m distance with 1w of power. If you need 5v to output 1w, you have bigger issues than XLR.

As for the noise argument, the most basic amp in my collection, a technics su-v5, sports 0.005% THD+N at full volume, some of my better amps are capable of 0.003% or better. That noise is simply inaudible and irrelevant.

 

[RKM]

Let us know once you have finally decided.


That means more boxes, so not exactly "exactly", right?

I promise I won't post to this thread until the Ultra hit the market because this discussion continues to be ridiculous.

You misunderstood what I wrote, and I will not waste my time explaining, I don’t want you to accuse me of being more “ridiculous” … time to close this thread again as folks just can’t seem to act like adults

 

[bherren]

Why is this an issue? I have devices that output at 150mv (0.15v) and my amps have no trouble getting them to 90+ db, just a bit further around the dial.

Some of those amps are only 20 watters.

A typical speaker of say 88db sensitivity is capable of outputting 88db at 1m distance with 1w of power. If you need 5v to output 1w, you have bigger issues than XLR.

As for the noise argument, the most basic amp in my collection, a technics su-v5, sports 0.005% THD+N at full volume, some of my better amps are capable of 0.003% or better. That noise is simply inaudible and irrelevant.

Why is this an issue? I have devices that output at 150mv (0.15v) and my amps have no trouble getting them to 90+ db, just a bit further around the dial.

Some of those amps are only 20 watters.

A typical speaker of say 88db sensitivity is capable of outputting 88db at 1m distance with 1w of power. If you need 5v to output 1w, you have bigger issues than XLR.

As for the noise argument, the most basic amp in my collection, a technics su-v5, sports 0.005% THD+N at full volume, some of my better amps are capable of 0.003% or better. That noise is simply inaudible and irrelevant.

Feeding a power amp with no volume control and an op amp input buffer with selectable gain. It measures better at lower gain settings

That said the difference may well be inaudible...

 

[djwalter2000]

With the 3.5 inch display, I'm fine with one VU meter instead of a pair.

 

[cooky560]

Feeding a power amp with no volume control and an op amp input buffer with selectable gain. It measures better at lower gain settings

That said the difference may well be inaudible...

I'm sure you have far better measuring audio than my 0.003% THD+N, that said if you can hear distortion at a level of 0.003% you have far better ears than me, and that's with a 0.15v input. At 2v, I'm sure I can get much better measurements.

 

[cooky560]

Is the Wiim ultra actually a pre-amp? I don't see any mention of this capability officially.

 

[bherren]

Is the Wiim ultra actually a pre-amp? I don't see any mention of this capability officially.

Define "pre-amp"

It has multiple input sources, EQ and volume control, what else would a pre-amp do this doesn't?

Same with Pro & Pro Plus unless you need more inputs than it provides.

 

[cooky560]

Define "pre-amp"

It has multiple input sources, EQ and volume control, what else would a pre-amp do this doesn't?

Same with Pro & Pro Plus unless you need more inputs than it provides.

I would expect a pre-amp to have a separate volume stage that's not part of the streaming / dac stage. I notice that the Pro Plus has a noticable sound difference if I don't use it at 100% volume and use my amp to adjust the gain.

 

[bherren]

I would expect a pre-amp to have a separate volume stage that's not part of the streaming / dac stage. I notice that the Pro Plus has a noticable sound difference if I don't use it at 100% volume and use my amp to adjust the gain.

The pro plus has digital volume, that's probably the main difference. I tried using the volume control on my DAC instead of the WiiM but couldn't really hear a difference, that said I don't know if the topping D70 Pro uses analog or digital volume control.

 

[cc_rider]

With the 3.5 inch display, I'm fine with one VU meter instead of a pair.

Can use the Revox-style meters, which fit nicely on a 3.5" display.



Or, two different colored needles on a single dial.

 

[adias]

Is the Wiim ultra actually a pre-amp? I don't see any mention of this capability officially.

Of course not. It’s a digital hub but no analog volume control. A digital volume control degrades the digital signal - essentially cuts down resolution (bits) as it ‘lowers’ the volume. Ok in a boombox. Unacceptable in a decent hi-fi system. To each his own.

 

[bherren]

Of course not. It’s a digital hub but no analog volume control. A digital volume control degrades the digital signal - essentially cuts down resolution (bits) as it ‘lowers’ the volume. Ok in a boombox. Unacceptable in a decent hi-fi system. To each his own.

Half volume, you lose one bit. 1/8th, you lose 3, out of 32 I think (the DAC internal resolution), or worst case out of 24. The 'loss' of resolution might be "unacceptable" on paper but isn't going to be audible in an output circuit

That said I'm the one arguing for balanced output which is also probably only an improvement on paper so...

 

[laxcoach47]

Personally, I think phono preamp is looking backwards. Balanced/xlr is looking forward.

 

[adias]

Personally, I think phono preamp is looking backwards. Balanced/xlr is looking forward.

I would bet Linkplay will never offer a true analog balanced output. But time will tell. XLR sockets does not imply balanced… plenty of those and fooled customers.

 

[bherren]

I would bet Linkplay will never offer a true analog balanced output. But time will tell. XLR sockets does not imply balanced… plenty of those and fooled customers.

That would be frankly weird and would show right away on measurements so I very much doubt it.

It also makes little sense economically since the bulk of the cost is going to be the connectors Those DACs can output balanced, so if you bite the bullet and put the connectors in, why would you fake it ? You wouldn't save anything.

For a fully analog device it's different, there is extra complexity in going balanced, but not here.