WiiM Ultra

Updated on 5/25/2024

Check out this fuller thread about our official announcement of the WiiM Ultra - https://forum.wiimhome.com/threads/meet-wiim-ultra-the-digital-hub-for-your-music.3487/

Updated on 4/19/2024

Hi Team,

We're excited to give you a sneak peek at the WiiM Ultra, your future go-to digital hub for all things music! We're putting the final touches on this innovative product and are on track for a Q2 release. Stay tuned for more updates as we gear up for launch!




Original message by Brantome:
As mentioned in a user reply from the WiiM/Linkplay CEO on the WiiM Fan Page on Facebook, WiiM are developing a new device called the WiiM Ultra which will have a screen, aluminium case and USB audio output. It should be available Q2 2024, so a good five to six months away.

Guess @Smartplug is due a prize (e.g. I'll lay off gently ribbing them about their constant 'when' questions) as I think they first suggested that name a while ago

That's the entirety of the information I have, but WiiM do say they'll release more details in due course.

 

[VladaJ]

Yeah, really viz. https://forum.wiimhome.com/posts/46920/

Not joking, really...
I am glad that you mentioned this since this eill open up a lot of possibilities for experimenting with different DACs (and power amps).

 

[Steve Woodhouse]

Really?
If the Amp will get an update to enable the USB out, then the lack of XLRs on Ultra/Amp wouldn't matter at all:
Amp->usb out->external dac->XLR out->external power amp
Just saying...

Yes…but most external DACs (though not all) have coax and/or optical in, too.

Once again though, this is of no use if you intend to use the sub out, unless it can be configured to do so part RCA/part digital, post bass management.

 

[D1N0]

Yes…but most external DACs (though not all) have coax and/or optical in, too.

Once again though, this is of no use if you intend to use the sub out, unless it can be configured to do so part RCA/part digital, post bass management.

s/pdif outputs are multiplexing, meaning clock and data are in de same signal. This means the streamer clock is leading. With USB the clocking signal is send seperately to the DAC, making the DAC clock leading. This potentially leads to a much better performance in the time domain. Better sound stage and instrument separation, better rhythmic performance, leading to PRaT. Pace Rythm and Timing. Music will just sound better because it is reproduced true to what the artist performed. It is the largest part of what makes high end high end.

 

[D1N0]

Why would you need a preamp for a device with a built-in phono preamp?

Because if you want bit perfect sound you cannot use the attenuation on the WIIM Ultra. Pretty sure it is digital. The Phono pre-amp is for amplifying the record sound to line level. Hasn't got anything to do with amplification of other sources.

 

[sral]

Because if you want bit perfect sound you cannot use the attenuation on the WIIM Ultra. Pretty sure it is digital. The Phono pre-amp is for amplifying the record sound to line level. Hasn't got anything to do with amplification of other sources.

That's our current problem when discussing it's value.
If it can be used as a bit perfect pre amp then it's value skyrocket.

 

[VladaJ]

Yes…but most external DACs (though not all) have coax and/or optical in, too.

Once again though, this is of no use if you intend to use the sub out, unless it can be configured to do so part RCA/part digital, post bass management.

Yes, I understand that.
But, since I already own a WiiM Amp, I figure there's no harm in trying something new, especially since I plan to purchase a pair of Fosi V3 Mono's anyway.
So, I will use a USB dac and connect it to the Amp and to the Fosi's.
Just for fun... that's the goal anyway, isn't it, having fun with our hobby?

 

[sral]

My remarks here are always more general. For my usage and setups the Pro has all (and even more than used) I want and nothing I do not want from a streamer. So it would be ok to write "Hold your fingers still in a thread about a device you are not interested in" ;-)

I'm just starting to find the constant complaining, about what the product should be to meet the demands of a single person, a bit annoying.

They should have made a smaller sized box, without a DAC section, where you can slot in different DAC cards, depending on your needs.
It should also have every connection imaginable, including XLR outputs, preferably double of each.
It needs to function as a streamer, DAC, pre-amp and amp.
Sound quality needs to match devices costing 100x it's price.
On the front it should have a port where you can attach a screen, preferably a 12,5" OLED display, that's mounted on a tilt and swivel allowing for full degree of movement.
It should be made of magnesium.
And all of this should be offered for $200.
/S (if that wasn't clear)

 

[cc_rider]

So, a new Linkplay module!

...and here it is, the A98D Linkplay module, just Bluetooth certified today.

https://device.report/linkplay-technology/a98d

 

[bherren]

s/pdif outputs are multiplexing, meaning clock and data are in de same signal. This means the streamer clock is leading. With USB the clocking signal is send seperately to the DAC, making the DAC clock leading. This potentially leads to a much better performance in the time domain. Better sound stage and instrument separation, better rhythmic performance, leading to PRaT. Pace Rythm and Timing. Music will just sound better because it is reproduced true to what the artist performed. It is the largest part of what makes high end high end.

Without wanting to restart that flame war I think it's important to point out for the sake of people seeking accurate information that the above is an 'opinion' peddled wildly in the audiophile world that has so far not been backed by any solid data. Basically snake oil

The clock coming from the streamer is the effectively the clock of the original media as recorded. There is absolutely nothing wrong with it.

Two different clock sources are always going to drift. So the clock of the incoming data and the clock of your DAC, regardless of their quality, are going to drift . It doesn't matter a wee bit which one you chose as your 'master', you will have to either do some amount of clock adaptation (spdif master) which affects the signal by a factor which depends on how much they drift and is likely completely inaudible, or you will reproduce the signal intact but at a clock that slightly differs from the original sampling clock of the recording and your signal will thus be slightly off pitch but here too, probably inaudible.

We are talking about kilohertz here. This is slow for all intents and purposes in modern digital electronics. The drift, jitter, etc... aren't going to be relevant unless your equipment is complete garbage.

There is no way this affects anything like 'instrument separation' or 'sound stage' or whatever mumbo jumbo comes out of the audiophile jargon of the day.

 

[onlyoneme]

What you wrote is mostly incorrect, although there are parts that are true.

 

[bherren]

What you wrote is mostly incorrect, although there are parts that are true.

I grant you the streamer is pulling from the online stream or the local media so is sending the bits at a rate defined by it's own clock, not the original recording sampling clock. Since spdif has no flow control, the DAC has to adapt. With USB, while USB audio is isochronous, you do get an async feedback path to control the flow, effectively locking the bit rate to the DAC clock.

I still posit that unless the streamer clock is off by a fairly large amount this will not have audible effects, especially not 'instrument separation'...

I do hope that when using the internal DAC the streamer uses the DAC clock though but even then, I would be surprised if a double blind tests exposes any difference

 

[onlyoneme]

Now it looks much better.

 

[D1N0]

Without wanting to restart that flame war

And then goes on taking out his flamethrower

 

[adias]

Without wanting to restart that flame war I think it's important to point out for the sake of people seeking accurate information that the above is an 'opinion' peddled wildly in the audiophile world that has so far not been backed by any solid data. Basically snake oil

The clock coming from the streamer is the effectively the clock of the original media as recorded. There is absolutely nothing wrong with it.

Two different clock sources are always going to drift. So the clock of the incoming data and the clock of your DAC, regardless of their quality, are going to drift . It doesn't matter a wee bit which one you chose as your 'master', you will have to either do some amount of clock adaptation (spdif master) which affects the signal by a factor which depends on how much they drift and is likely completely inaudible, or you will reproduce the signal intact but at a clock that slightly differs from the original sampling clock of the recording and your signal will thus be slightly off pitch but here too, probably inaudible.

We are talking about kilohertz here. This is slow for all intents and purposes in modern digital electronics. The drift, jitter, etc... aren't going to be relevant unless your equipment is complete garbage.

There is no way this affects anything like 'instrument separation' or 'sound stage' or whatever mumbo jumbo comes out of the audiophile jargon of the day.

FYI there’s no clock in the data. The clock is generated in the streamer to push the data at its recorded clock rate. On advanced USB input DACs the stream is buffered and the clock is regenerated with a precision clock.

The WiiM clock via SPDIF/coax is not bad but I can hear an improvement when the same track is sent via USB to my DAC from a different stream source.

 

[bherren]

FYI there’s no clock in the data. The clock is generated in the streamer to push the data at its recorded clock rate. On advanced USB input DACs the stream is buffered and the clock is regenerated with a precision clock.

The WiiM clock via SPDIF/coax is not bad but I can hear an improvement when the same track is sent via USB to my DAC from a different stream source.

I get that. But we are still in a pretty slow clock domain by modern standards... 192*24 plus protocol chaff & rounding is about 5Mhz, double it to account for spdif encoding, this is by all standards a pretty slow clock nowadays.

I don't get how using a 'precision' clock in the DAC changes the sound in a noticeable way unless the WiiM clock is off by a large percentage...

Typical crystal oscillators are 10 to 20ppm in precision aren't they ? Even if the WiiM uses the SoC clocks, unless the PLL in there has really poor granularity, I don't see it being far off enough to make a relevant difference to what gets turned into a 192kHz signal in the end... What am I missing?

 

[adias]

I get that. But we are still in a pretty slow clock domain by modern standards... 192*24 plus protocol chaff & rounding is about 5Mhz, double it to account for spdif encoding, this is by all standards a pretty slow clock nowadays.

I don't get how using a 'precision' clock in the DAC changes the sound in a noticeable way unless the WiiM clock is off by a large percentage...

Typical crystal oscillators are 10 to 20ppm in precision aren't they ? Even if the WiiM uses the SoC clocks, unless the PLL in there has really poor granularity, I don't see it being far off enough to make a relevant difference to what gets turned into a 192kHz signal in the end... What am I missing?

Either you hear it or you don’t. I do and others in my vicinity hear it too. It’s all system dependent.

 

[Fitzliputzli]

I'm just starting to find the constant complaining, about what the product should be to meet the demands of a single person, a bit annoying.

They should have made a smaller sized box, without a DAC section, where you can slot in different DAC cards, depending on your needs.
It should also have every connection imaginable, including XLR outputs, preferably double of each.
It needs to function as a streamer, DAC, pre-amp and amp.
Sound quality needs to match devices costing 100x it's price.
On the front it should have a port where you can attach a screen, preferably a 12,5" OLED display, that's mounted on a tilt and swivel allowing for full degree of movement.
It should be made of magnesium.
And all of this should be offered for $200.
/S (if that wasn't clear)

Nothing different said! In any case people have to eat what WiiM brings to the table. Or not. A few adults still seem to be around. If a thread like that exists, and most likely with WiiMs blessing, no one should be surprised. And hey, it will be a nice little reasonable toy. For many, certainly not for all.

 

[Fitzliputzli]

This sometimes ridiculous DAC or better chip fetishism is the biggest commercial air bubble obvious in audio since a few years and will burst, predictable sooner than later. At some point even the biggest enthusiasts, to chose a friendly word, will reach a point asking how far, fast and cheating this industry will go and if all the promises lead to a better sound. Food for measurements, no benefits for music. As always, YMMV ;-)

 

[WiiLiaM]

I'm just starting to find the constant complaining, about what the product should be to meet the demands of a single person, a bit annoying.

They should have made a smaller sized box, without a DAC section, where you can slot in different DAC cards, depending on your needs.
It should also have every connection imaginable, including XLR outputs, preferably double of each.
It needs to function as a streamer, DAC, pre-amp and amp.
Sound quality needs to match devices costing 100x it's price.
On the front it should have a port where you can attach a screen, preferably a 12,5" OLED display, that's mounted on a tilt and swivel allowing for full degree of movement.
It should be made of magnesium.
And all of this should be offered for $200.
/S (if that wasn't clear)

You seem to have omitted it bringing you tea/coffee to bed in the morning

 

[GusGusNFT]

What would the odds be if you are able to buy a WiiM Mini or Pro on sale, get an external DAC and amp and sound better than the WiiM Ultra for less $$$.

I seriously hope the Ultra has a better DAC than my Topping D50S. I also hope WiiM doesn’t pull a fast one and get the cheapest DAC that can support MQA and call it day!