Beta Test: Sound Profile

[hgo58]

@WiiM Team Some comments to the Sound Profile beta test firmware.



1) The update installed a default profile for each input with the volume set to a fixed value. It looks like the input volume used at the time of the update. This must be the "current volume" initially.
This do however conflict with the per input volume. The setting must then have 3 options: Fixed, Current (not depending on input) and Per input.

2) The profile can only be edited from the Browse tab, not from device input settings. Why?

3) Why can the screen only be turned on/off. Why not allow selection of any playback screen as requested many times?

4) I don't find a way to reuse the same profile for different inputs. Even setting the same name for the profiles results in different profiles for each input.

5) I don't find a way to disable a profile.
It is however "Not Set" for the inputs that was disabled when the firmware was updated.

6) What is the purpose of the Sound Profile if each input have its own and it's mandatory? Then the settings could just be on the same page as the other input settings.

7) Why can you control the Sub Output on/off per input? I would expect that to be related to outputs.

 

[Wiimer]

Since @hgo58 has kindly created this thread, I'll report the issue for which a ticket has already been submitted.

Ticket :545467
In the 'Input A' profile, (left at default settings) the device is set to Ultra only. In the 'Input B' profile, three devices were selected.

Switching from Input A to Input B creates a group of three devices. However, switching back to Input A does'nt cancel the group; it remains active.

Note that selecting two devices in Input A functions correctly. (Switching from Input B to Input A changes the group configuration.)
.....

I've performed a rough functional check and found no other particular issues. I grouped three devices via HDMI input and configured wireless Dolby 5.1. It's good that switching the input to HDMI automatically set up the Dolby configuration. However, as mentioned earlier, switching the input to Wi-Fi prevents stereo playback using only the Ultra.



-First impressions-
The settings screen feels somewhat complex, and the overlap with presets makes it rather confusing.

Volume, Sub out, and Screen overlap with presets, so I became confused when setting both input profiles and presets. I lost track of what I was doing. But I understand these values are overridden by presets.

It might be fine once I get used to it, though. For now, it's not a feature that suits my purposes, so I haven't given it much thought.

As @hgo58 has already mentioned, since profiles cannot be disabled, a reset button might be useful. And I think it would be good if could select the play screen.

Frankly, I'm not entirely sure how this feature will develop going forward.
As I primarily use Wi-Fi and HDMI for input, the 'Per-Source Volume Control' is perfectly sufficient.
However, it may be convenient for users who utilise many inputs.

 

[hgo58]

Since @hgo58 has kindly created this thread, I'll report the issue for which a ticket has already been submitted.

Ticket :545467
In the 'Input A' profile, (left at default settings) the device is set to Ultra only. In the 'Input B' profile, three devices were selected.

Switching from Input A to Input B creates a group of three devices. However, switching back to Input A does'nt cancel the group; it remains active.

Note that selecting two devices in Input A functions correctly. (Switching from Input B to Input A changes the group configuration.)
.....

I've performed a rough functional check and found no other particular issues. I grouped three devices via HDMI input and configured wireless Dolby 5.1. It's good that switching the input to HDMI automatically set up the Dolby configuration. However, as mentioned earlier, switching the input to Wi-Fi prevents stereo playback using only the Ultra.



-First impressions-
The settings screen feels somewhat complex, and the overlap with presets makes it rather confusing.

Volume, Sub out, and Screen overlap with presets, so I became confused when setting both input profiles and presets. I lost track of what I was doing. But I understand these values are overridden by presets.

It might be fine once I get used to it, though. For now, it's not a feature that suits my purposes, so I haven't given it much thought.

As @hgo58 has already mentioned, since profiles cannot be disabled, a reset button might be useful. And I think it would be good if could select the play screen.

Frankly, I'm not entirely sure how this feature will develop going forward.
As I primarily use Wi-Fi and HDMI for input, the 'Per-Source Volume Control' is perfectly sufficient.
However, it may be convenient for users who utilise many inputs.

Any thoughts about why a separate named profile is needed?

Why not just add the new settings to the default input settings page?

I cannot find an argument to make a new page. It is mandatory and the settings cannot be disabled.

The name has no functionality as far as I can see. You can give it any name, even the same for all inputs. Each input will still have the its own version of the profile. And only that one version.

 

[hgo58]

The solution description for the Sound Profile includes the per input EQ in the profile. This is however not what is implemented, as the EQ is in the input settings page.

How to Use Sound Profile for a Convenient and Personalized Listening Experience

TABLE OF CONTENTS Benefits of Sound Profile Configure a Sound Profile Automatically Apply a Sound Profile WiiM supports the Sound Profile feature, which allows you to customize playback settings (e.g., multi-room, volume, EQ, and subwoofer...

faq.wiimhome.com

 

[hgo58]

Since @hgo58 has kindly created this thread, I'll report the issue for which a ticket has already been submitted.

Ticket :545467
In the 'Input A' profile, (left at default settings) the device is set to Ultra only. In the 'Input B' profile, three devices were selected.

Switching from Input A to Input B creates a group of three devices. However, switching back to Input A does'nt cancel the group; it remains active.

Note that selecting two devices in Input A functions correctly. (Switching from Input B to Input A changes the group configuration.)
.....

I've performed a rough functional check and found no other particular issues. I grouped three devices via HDMI input and configured wireless Dolby 5.1. It's good that switching the input to HDMI automatically set up the Dolby configuration. However, as mentioned earlier, switching the input to Wi-Fi prevents stereo playback using only the Ultra.



-First impressions-
The settings screen feels somewhat complex, and the overlap with presets makes it rather confusing.

Volume, Sub out, and Screen overlap with presets, so I became confused when setting both input profiles and presets. I lost track of what I was doing. But I understand these values are overridden by presets.

It might be fine once I get used to it, though. For now, it's not a feature that suits my purposes, so I haven't given it much thought.

As @hgo58 has already mentioned, since profiles cannot be disabled, a reset button might be useful. And I think it would be good if could select the play screen.

Frankly, I'm not entirely sure how this feature will develop going forward.
As I primarily use Wi-Fi and HDMI for input, the 'Per-Source Volume Control' is perfectly sufficient.
However, it may be convenient for users who utilise many inputs.

I can see the benefits of automatically setting up the 5.1 for the HDMI input.

But why not just allow setting of a Persistent Group, instead of having to define the same again?

What if you don't want any changes when switching? How is that configured?

 

[Wiimer]

Any thoughts about why a separate named profile is needed?

It appears they've simply utilised the preset editing screen to streamline the workflow using existing resources. Or, it may be intended to allow saving multiple profiles in future, though I can't think of any specific use case for differentiating between them at present..

Why not just add the new settings to the default input settings page?

I thought so too, but there might be some reason for it. I recall opinions were divided within the team regarding this feature. Perhaps they implemented it provisionally while the direction hadn't yet been finalised? (I want to believe that it is not.)

I cannot find an argument to make a new page. It is mandatory and the settings cannot be disabled.

Yes, At present, it appears that setting the volume is at least essential. It's unclear whether the default being set to custom volume is a bug or intentional.
I neglected to check the initial volume level, but was the default setting originally determined by the Per-Source Volume Control?

 

[Wiimer]

The solution description for the Sound Profile includes the per input EQ in the profile. This is however not what is implemented, as the EQ is in the input settings page.

How to Use Sound Profile for a Convenient and Personalized Listening Experience

TABLE OF CONTENTS Benefits of Sound Profile Configure a Sound Profile Automatically Apply a Sound Profile WiiM supports the Sound Profile feature, which allows you to customize playback settings (e.g., multi-room, volume, EQ, and subwoofer...

faq.wiimhome.com

I'm afraid I'm not quite sure which point you are referring to.
The screenshot within the FAQ is of the input settings screen and matches the actual one.

 

[hgo58]

I'm afraid I'm not quite sure which point you are referring to.
The screenshot within the FAQ is of the input settings screen and matches the actual one.
View attachment 28570

See the text:

"WiiM supports the Sound Profile feature, which allows you to customize playback settings (e.g., multi-room, volume, EQ, and subwoofer) for each input source."

This indicates to me that the current implementation is not what was originally planned for.

So either move all to a set of named profiles that can be shared and easily referenced from the input settings page (and Presets) or just add the new settings directly in the input settings page.

 

[Wiimer]

I can see the benefits of automatically setting up the 5.1 for the HDMI input.

But why not just allow setting of a Persistent Group, instead of having to define the same again?

What if you don't want any changes when switching? How is that configured?

The current MRM and persistent groups lack a one-tap group removal function. This feature would enable automatic group creation, configuration changes, and dissolution for each input. (It is not currently functional.)

Furthermore, development of persistent groups appears to have halted at an intermediate stage. The concept of eliminating the distinction between leader and follower devices seems to have been abandoned.

 

[Wiimer]

See the text:

"WiiM supports the Sound Profile feature, which allows you to customize playback settings (e.g., multi-room, volume, EQ, and subwoofer) for each input source."

This indicates to me that the current implementation is not what was originally planned for.

The screenshot and text don't match, so it might just be a typo.

 

[Wiimer]

What if you don't want any changes when switching? How is that configured?

By selecting the same device for all input profiles, you can maintain the same group configuration even after switching inputs.

 

[hgo58]

By selecting the same device for all input profiles, you can maintain the same group configuration even after switching inputs.

But I want it to stay on the current configuration, whatever that is.

 

[hgo58]

My conclusion is that if the@WiiM Team releases the Sound Profile as described and partly implemented in the beta test, it will cause a lot of issues and very little benefit.

I have some ideas to how this could be done in a better and more generic way but I guess WiiM is not interested (they have not been before).

Let us wait for the WiiM response, if any.

 

[Wiimer]

I had thought this was a feature with no practical use for me, but I've come up with one. It seems to hold tremendous potential as a function for switching group configurations.

What deserves attention is that it now allows switching the leader device, something previously impossible with persistent groups.

To verify whether my idea could be realised, I installed the beta version on two Ultra units and created two groups, one for the Wi-Fi input and one for the HDMI input on each Ultra.



For the WI-FI input on the "Ultra 1", create a group containing the Amp Ultra and the "Ultra 2".
For the HDMI input on the "Ultra 1", create a wireless Dolby group containing the Amp Ultra and the AudioPro A10.

For the Ultra 2 Wi-Fi input, create a group including the Amp Ultra.
For the Ultra 2 HDMI input, create a wireless Dolby group including the Amp Ultra and AudioPro A10.



When streaming music was first played on Ultra 1, Group A was automatically created on the WHA. Next, switching Ultra 1's input to HDMI caused Group A to be dissolved and Group B to be created.

Next, when streaming music was played on Ultra 2, Group C was formed with Ultra 2 as the leader. Subsequently, switching Ultra 2's input to HDMI changed the configuration to Group D. Finally, playing music again on Ultra 1 switched back to Group A. (In this video, it is switching from group D to group C.)

This is a screen recording of the sequence of actions.

View attachment aee25541-b87d-407e-b8ed-ef40c0880b0d-1_all_2166.mp4


Unfortunately, the initial group switch did not work smoothly at this stage, requiring several input switches and playback pauses. However, once this operates smoothly, it should significantly reduce the previously cumbersome effort involved in switching groups.

I have no way of knowing whether the @WiiM Team had given such uses much thought, but I suspect this feature could be further refined when used in conjunction with presets. Therefore, I would be delighted if group configuration options could be added to the presets. Furthermore, adding an option within presets to switch input twice could potentially make this automatic group switching even smoother.

For users who own multiple devices and operate multiple multi-room groups, I believe this holds the potential to be a fantastic feature.

Today was a thoroughly enjoyable day!

 

[hgo58]

I had thought this was a feature with no practical use for me, but I've come up with one. It seems to hold tremendous potential as a function for switching group configurations.

What deserves attention is that it now allows switching the leader device, something previously impossible with persistent groups.

To verify whether my idea could be realised, I installed the beta version on two Ultra units and created two groups, one for the Wi-Fi input and one for the HDMI input on each Ultra.
View attachment 28593


For the WI-FI input on the "Ultra 1", create a group containing the Amp Ultra and the "Ultra 2".
For the HDMI input on the "Ultra 1", create a wireless Dolby group containing the Amp Ultra and the AudioPro A10.

For the Ultra 2 Wi-Fi input, create a group including the Amp Ultra.
For the Ultra 2 HDMI input, create a wireless Dolby group including the Amp Ultra and AudioPro A10.



When streaming music was first played on Ultra 1, Group A was automatically created on the WHA. Next, switching Ultra 1's input to HDMI caused Group A to be dissolved and Group B to be created.

Next, when streaming music was played on Ultra 2, Group C was formed with Ultra 2 as the leader. Subsequently, switching Ultra 2's input to HDMI changed the configuration to Group D. Finally, playing music again on Ultra 1 switched back to Group A.

This is a screen recording of the sequence of actions.

View attachment 28596


Unfortunately, the initial group switch did not work smoothly at this stage, requiring several input switches and playback pauses. However, once this operates smoothly, it should significantly reduce the previously cumbersome effort involved in switching groups.

I have no way of knowing whether the @WiiM Team had given such uses much thought, but I suspect this feature could be further refined when used in conjunction with presets. Therefore, I would be delighted if group configuration options could be added to the presets. Furthermore, adding an option within presets to switch input twice could potentially make this automatic group switching even smoother.

For users who own multiple devices and operate multiple multi-room groups, I believe this holds the potential to be a fantastic feature.

Today was a thoroughly enjoyable day!

Is this not what we should have gotten with the President Group, if it had been fully implemented?

I have suggested to WiiM that the Sound Profile could be referred from Presets also. The current implementation do however not really allow that, as it is not a set of named profiles but just an expansion of the input settings that is not shareable.

 

[Wiimer]

Is this not what we should have gotten with the President Group, if it had been fully implemented?

Sure, but this is a step further in automation. If you own five WiiM devices, you can configure five different groups and switch between them automatically using Wi-Fi input alone.

With the current persistent groups, management becomes more complex as the number of groups increases, but this could potentially resolve that.

My ideal was for this feature to be set up as a routine rather than tied to input. Still, I don't think it's bad.

 

[hgo58]

Sure, but this is a step further in automation. If you own five WiiM devices, you can configure five different groups and switch between them automatically using Wi-Fi input alone.

With the current persistent groups, management becomes more complex as the number of groups increases, but this could potentially resolve that.

My ideal was for this feature to be set up as a routine rather than tied to input. Still, I don't think it's bad.

My fear that this is a zig zag course to an unknown goal.

If I was WiiM I would sit down and do a proper analyses and set a generic target. That can then be achieve in smaller steps.

This is for both the Link grouping functionality and the Sound Profile functions.