Beta Testing: HDMI ARC Enhancements

[hgo58]

A new Ultra beta test for the HDMI CEC issue that has been present for a year now.

This time it looks like WiiM have made a solution that actually works for all?



I do however still not understand why we need the "Use TV speakers when HDMI is inactive" toggle? I would expect that to always be the case when "Use HDMI Audio Only when in HDMI Mode" is enabled.

The text "Use HDMI Audio Only when in HDMI Mode" is also a bit misleading. Maybe "Activate HDMI CEC discovery only when HDMI ARC input is selected" would be better?

When "Use HDMI Audio Only when in HDMI Mode" is enabled the "HDMI auto-sensing" toggle should also be grayed out, as it cannot work at the same time.

Also why do I have to press "Done" to a HDMI connection popup each time I select the HDMI input? That shouldn't be necessary. The popup is fine if the connection fails but not when it's working ok.

All in all it does work as expected with my Sony Bravia TV, both with the new toggles enabled and disabled.

PS: The text in the beta test description is wrong. The toggle described don't exist anymore.

 

[Wiimer]

Hi @WiiM Team , @WiiM Support,

I tested this beta a bit. The results are good—at least on my TV, it's working fine without compromising any features that were previously functional. No issues so far .

Also, I'm glad to see @hgo58's long-standing problem seems to be resolved. Peace has finally returned.


But as @hgo58 pointed out, I also find the names of these two toggles too long and hard to grasp. My suggestion is simpler, shorter names.


Alternative to "Use HDMI Audio Only in HDMI Mode"

HDMI Power Sync
(or) HDMI CEC Power Sync

This feature does not perform CEC power synchronization when WiiM input is not via HDMI, so I believe this name is largely appropriate. However, if this name is used, the feature must be enabled when the toggle is on (as before). And the default setting must be on.


Alternative to "Use TV Speakers When HDMI Is Inactive".

Use TV Speakers

On my TV, turning this toggle on enables simultaneous output to both the WiiM speakers and the TV speakers. Since the operation is explained in the description, I think the toggle name can be short.

I do however still not understand why we need the "Use TV speakers when HDMI is inactive" toggle? I would expect that to always be the case when "Use HDMI Audio Only when in HDMI Mode" is enabled.

I thought it was an additional toggle specifically for your TV.
Also as I mentioned earlier, the behavior when turning it on/off differs on my TV.


When the toggle is Off.
When I switching WiiM input to Wi-Fi and playing music, sound stops coming from the TV speakers. This is the same behavior as before.



When the toggle is On.
When I switching WiiM input to Wi-Fi and play music, the TV speakers output the TV audio. At the same time, I can hear the music from the WiiM speakers.

 

[hgo58]

HDMI Power Sync
(or) HDMI CEC Power Sync

It's not a power sync. If it was, then the TV would turn on when you select the HDMI input on the WiiM. It's just a CEC discovery.

Use TV Speakers

On my TV, turning this toggle on enables simultaneous output to both the WiiM speakers and the TV speakers. Since the operation is explained in the description, I think the toggle name can be short.

It only changes the CEC discovery behaviour when you deselect the HDMI input. If disabled and you have selected another input one time, you cannot get the TV sound back to the TV internal speakers unless you reboot the WiiM (or change it on the TV, if possible). It doesn't make any sense to me. The discovery shall always follow the input selection of the HDMI.

I thought it was an additional toggle specifically for your TV.

No, it's because someone on the Forum complained about the CEC being turned off when deselecting the HDMI input. I do however think this is a misunderstanding by WiiM? In the default mode (CEC always on) this is never the case and that is how it should be. For a short while (one firmware version) the deselection of the HDMI input did also disable the CEC discovery no matter what the HDMI toggle was set to and that was what people complained about.

When the toggle is Off.
When I switching WiiM input to Wi-Fi and playing music, sound stops coming from the TV speakers. This is the same behavior as before.
View attachment 31552

Yes and you can't get the sound back to the internal TV speakers then.

When the toggle is On.
When I switching WiiM input to Wi-Fi and play music, the TV speakers output the TV audio. At the same time, I can hear the music from the WiiM speakers.
View attachment 31553

This is the only sensible behaviour to my opinion. The TV sound is following the WiiM input selection. So no need to have both toggles.

 

[Wiimer]

It's not a power sync. If it was, then the TV would turn on when you select the HDMI input on the WiiM. It's just a CEC discovery.

To my knowledge, this is a feature called HDMI Power Sync or HDMI Power Linkage on the AVR. While you can' turn on the TV when powering on the WiiM, the WiiM's power will synchronize with the TV's power on/off.

It only changes the CEC discovery behaviour when you deselect the HDMI input. If disabled and you have selected another input one time, you cannot get the TV sound back to the TV internal speakers unless you reboot the WiiM (or change it on the TV, if possible). It doesn't make any sense to me. The discovery shall always follow the input selection of the HDMI.

When the "Use TV Speakers..." toggle is off, my TV speakers are not used. When turned on, the TV speakers will always be used when input from the WiiM is not via HDMI.

It works as described.

So no need to have both toggles.

In the end, didn't thay add another toggle because one toggle couldn't solve your problem?

I don't understand why you keep complaining even though your problem has been solved.

 

[JAB]

Latest at a point when one notices that his wishes are only HIS wishes.....(complete with your own words, students!)

 

[hgo58]

To my knowledge, this is a feature called HDMI Power Sync or HDMI Power Linkage on the AVR. While you can' turn on the TV when powering on the WiiM, the WiiM's power will synchronize with the TV's power on/off.

No. Discovery and Power synchronization is two different things. WiiM correctly implements discovery.

When the "Use TV Speakers..." toggle is off, my TV speakers are not used. When turned on, the TV speakers will always be used when input from the WiiM is not via HDMI.

It works as described.

It does.

In the end, didn't thay add another toggle because one toggle couldn't solve your problem?

No. I didn't ask for this toggle. I have repeatably told WiiM that it doesn't make sense. It shall always be enabled when the HDMI toggle is and always be disabled when the HDMI toggle is. It doesn't harm but it is not needed.

I don't understand why you keep complaining even though your problem has been solved.

I don't complain. This is a beta test that allow us to make feedback to correct misunderstandings.

 

[hgo58]

Latest at a point when one notices that his wishes are only HIS wishes.....(complete with your own words, students!)

Not sure what you mean. The issue solved has been noted by many users with specific TV models. It was a feature that was broken more than a year ago.

It's however only relevant if some, like me, only want the TV sound via the WiiM in some cases (movies). If you always want to use the WiiM for TV sound, then there is no change.

 

[Wiimer]

No. Discovery and Power synchronization is two different things. WiiM correctly implements discovery.

If that's how you feel, that's fine. My biggest problem is that I just can't seem to remember this toggle name no matter how long I try. Please come up with a name that's appropriate, simple, and easy for anyone to remember right away.

It does.

No. I didn't ask for this toggle. I have repeatably told WiiM that it doesn't make sense. It shall always be enabled when the HDMI toggle is and always be disabled when the HDMI toggle is. It doesn't harm but it is not needed.

I have the CEC toggle turned off on my system using the WiiM TV app, so the Use TV Speakers toggle is necessary. (It needs to be turned off.)

I don't complain. This is a beta test that allow us to make feedback to correct misunderstandings.

It might just be me, but I always feel like your posts threaten the team. It might be because of the auto translation. Sorry if I've offended you, but that's my honest opinion.

 

[Intruder]

It might just be me, but I always feel like your posts threaten the team. It might be because of the auto translation. Sorry if I've offended you, but that's my honest opinion.

Lost in translation... I've never read one of his posts like that.. Just wish I was half as clever as him

 

[hgo58]

If that's how you feel, that's fine.

My biggest problem is that I just can't seem to remember this toggle name no matter how long I try. Please come up with a name that's appropriate, simple, and easy for anyone to remember right away.

Yes. That is not easy. And it has changed several times, including swapping meaning of the toggle.

I have once suggested "Active HDMI CEC control" but no one reacted to that.

It do anyway require a good explanation.

I have the CEC toggle turned off on my system using the WiiM TV app, so the Use TV Speakers toggle is necessary. (It needs to be turned off.)

That one I don't understand. So you need this special "Use TV speakers when HDMI is inactive" toggle to be disabled? Then it's fine it's there.

It might just be me, but I always feel like your posts threaten the team. It might be because of the auto translation. Sorry if I've offended you, but that's my honest opinion.

I understand what you say. It seems to be hard for me and WiiM to understand each other. There have been a lot of misunderstandings. So, yes, I do push the WiiM team to try to understand the use cases and they try to get me to understand also . It's however not a threat, just discussing, mostly via mail.

 

[Wiimer]

View attachment 31563


Yes. That is not easy. And it has changed several times, including swapping meaning of the toggle.

I have once suggested "Active HDMI CEC control" but no one reacted to that.

Yes, a shorter name would be fine. "HDMI control" is also acceptable. (Though in reality, I believe this term encompasses a broader range of functions.)

That one I don't understand. So you need this special "Use TV speakers when HDMI is inactive" toggle to be disabled? Then it's fine it's there.

Yes, once this beta is officially implemented in Amp Ultra, I need to enable "Use HDMI Audio Only in HDMI Mode" and disable "Use TV speakers when HDMI is inactive."

I want WiiM to not switch its input to HDMI when I turn on the TV while listening to music, and I want no sound whatsoever to come from the TV speakers while the TV is booting up. Currently, this is possible.

I understand what you say. It seems to be hard for me and WiiM to understand each other. There have been a lot of misunderstandings. So, yes, I do push the WiiM team to try to understand the use cases and they try to get me to understand also . It's however not a threat, just discussing, mostly via mail.

I wish you a wonderful new year

 

[hgo58]

After some more testing, my conclusion is that the HDMI CEC handling implemented in this beta test is what we need. It looks like fulfilling all requirements.

If we could get some better names for the toggles, it would be perfect.

Thanks to the @WiiM Team for updating this.

 

[hgo58]

Just found one small issue.

When watching TV with the sound on the TV internal speakers and the WiiM do its internally scheduled reboot, the sound is disabled on the TV for a short while until the WiiM has finished the reboot.

I bit annoying but not a big issue.

 

[WiiM Team]

Just found one small issue.

When watching TV with the sound on the TV internal speakers and the WiiM do its internally scheduled reboot, the sound is disabled on the TV for a short while until the WiiM has finished the reboot.

I bit annoying but not a big issue.

Hi @hgo58 ,

Thanks very much for your feedback, we will check this issue promptly.

 

[SomiKnight]

With both new options checked now its working as we requested, finaly, thank you, now i can remove optical to analog converter i had to use for tv because optical input is used as audio input.

 

[noralou86]

Haaaaa, great! If it works, I might reconnect it via HDMI and get the optical connection back. Looking forward to the update!

 

[mach]

@hgo58 - Dear partner on this long ARC-behaviour voyage, I'm happy you have reached your destination. Unfortunately, I still have an issue with the Beta.

It behaves as specified *if* the Ultra is powered off with the remote button, OR if it goes to standby while on another input that the HDMI ARC. Then turning the TV back on will result in it using internal speakers until the Ultra is manually powered on.

But if the Ultra goes to standby while on the TV input (e.g. TV shutdown now seems to trigger it immediately - is this new?), on the next TV power-on the ARC will be available, the Ultra and amp will come on and we are back to the pre-beta behavior. Unfortunately, this is often how it goes to sleep and I can't quite automate a switch away from the TV input on power-off either, because changing inputs will immediately bring everything back up, which is counterproductive for my quest to save downstream component wear and tear.

It is strange for the input state on power-off to matter for this. It does, oddly, match the toggle description if you read it a certain way, but NOT the beta description which talks about standby unconditionally.

@hgo58 is this not what you see? Timer standby while on TV input, then power TV back on is same as behavior outside the beta?

Cc @WiiM Team - thanks for your efforts. I will correct my in-app feedback with the information about power button off, which I hadn't noticed before posting.

 

[mach]

Incidentally, with this beta I'm noticing another behavior change - turning the Ultra off with the remote button now has the screen turn off as well, no more standby clock. Is this new and related to the difference I reported above between standby with the remote vs idle timer, or is it older and I haven't noticed because I don't use remote standby much (unless testing ARC betas ).

 

[hgo58]

Incidentally, with this beta I'm noticing another behavior change - turning the Ultra off with the remote button now has the screen turn off as well, no more standby clock. Is this new and related to the difference I reported above between standby with the remote vs idle timer, or is it older and I haven't noticed because I don't use remote standby much (unless testing ARC betas ).

That has always been the behavior.

The "power" button on the remote is just putting the WiiM in standby and for the Ultra with the screen off.

 

[hgo58]

@hgo58 - Dear partner on this long ARC-behaviour voyage, I'm happy you have reached your destination. Unfortunately, I still have an issue with the Beta.

It behaves as specified *if* the Ultra is powered off with the remote button, OR if it goes to standby while on another input that the HDMI ARC. Then turning the TV back on will result in it using internal speakers until the Ultra is manually powered on.

But if the Ultra goes to standby while on the TV input (e.g. TV shutdown now seems to trigger it immediately - is this new?), on the next TV power-on the ARC will be available, the Ultra and amp will come on and we are back to the pre-beta behavior. Unfortunately, this is often how it goes to sleep and I can't quite automate a switch away from the TV input on power-off either, because changing inputs will immediately bring everything back up, which is counterproductive for my quest to save downstream component wear and tear.

It is strange for the input state on power-off to matter for this. It does, oddly, match the toggle description if you read it a certain way, but NOT the beta description which talks about standby unconditionally.

@hgo58 is this not what you see? Timer standby while on TV input, then power TV back on is same as behavior outside the beta?

Cc @WiiM Team - thanks for your efforts. I will correct my in-app feedback with the information about power button off, which I hadn't noticed before posting.

This is the expected behaviour from my side. When the HDMI input is selected the TV sound is on ARC. With any other input, it's on internal speakers.

This is also true if WiiM is going out of standby with the HDMI input already selected.

As long as the CEC discovery is off when the WiiM is in standby or not on HDMI input, it's fine for me. I usually don't turn the WiiM on when watching TV, unless I need it to play the TV sound.

When I turn the WiiM on it's also usually by selecting a streaming input (Preset). Never just by pressing the "power" button on the remote.