External DAC sound quality thoughts

[JJD7798]

Why are so many users here looking for better DACs? The WiiM Pro Plus and WiiM Amp have a very good DAC built in, which is absolutely state of the art. DACs are no longer rocket science these days. If they are properly integrated, they are not the weakest link in the chain. Use most of your budget for the speakers and try to optimize your room acoustics as much as possible. This will give you by far the biggest improvement in sound quality. Don't drive yourself crazy over a DAC

Why are so many users here looking for better DACs? The WiiM Pro Plus and WiiM Amp have a very good DAC built in, which is absolutely state of the art. DACs are no longer rocket science these days. If they are properly integrated, they are not the weakest link in the chain. Use most of your budget for the speakers and try to optimize your room acoustics as much as possible. This will give you by far the biggest improvement in sound quality. Don't drive yourself crazy over a DAC!

Preach

 

[harkpabst]

Pardon me?

 

[steadyshot]

Upgrading speakers and adding subwoofers time alignment and all that stuff can be very expensive especially when you already have good speakers and you want to do a meaningful upgrade .So the streamer dac can play a role in sound quality (source is always important )and be a much cheaper upgrade . At least in the case of Wiim . What makes dac differentiate is how well their reconstruction filter works . Also feeding the dac with a pristine digital signal helps in that direction…

 

[harkpabst]

Upgrading speakers and adding subwoofers time alignment and all that stuff can be very expensive especially when you already have good speakers and you want to do a meaningful upgrade. So the streamer dac can play a role in sound quality (source is always important) and be a much cheaper upgrade.

Agreed. But in the case of WiiM you just might get both.

Right now, the advantages of properly integrated subwoofers for pure stereo are underestimated, because with traditionally HiFi equipment this task has been a PITA. From my very own and very personal experience I can only invite everyone to listen to a pair of cheap fullrange speakers like Dayton Audio RS100-4 augmented by whatever cheap subwoofer with highpass and lowpass filtering handled by the amplifier. You'll be astonished by how far such a lowly combo can take you.

If you already own a pair of speakers covering bass duties pretty well, the advantage might not be that obvious and some progress might be more easily achieved. But I'm very happy that the Ultra will bring improvements in both areas to a lot of consumers.

 

[steadyshot]

Agreed. But in the case of WiiM you just might get both.

Right now, the advantages of properly integrated subwoofers for pure stereo are underestimated, because with traditionally HiFi equipment this task has been a PITA. From my very own and very personal experience I can only invite everyone to listen to a pair of cheap fullrange speakers like Dayton Audio RS100-4 augmented by whatever cheap subwoofer with highpass and lowpass filtering handled by the amplifier. You'll be astonished by how far such a lowly combo can take you.

If you already own a pair of speakers covering bass duties pretty well, the advantage might not be that obvious and some progress might be more easily achieved. But I'm very happy that the Ultra will bring improvements in both areas to a lot of consumers.

I get you. But you need minimum 2 subs to get an even bass, 4 being ideal.

 

[Trailer]

I think the general concencus on here is that the DAC on the Pro Plus is better sounding than the Pro. So why couldn’t an external DAC improve the sound further?

 

[harkpabst]

I think the general concencus on here is that the DAC on the Pro Plus is better sounding than the Pro. So why couldn’t an external DAC improve the sound further?

Well, mainly because this is a thread about the WiiM Amp in the WiiM Amp subforum and as of now there is no way to connect it to an external DAC.

WiiM have announced that the USB A port (currently supporting playback from USB media, only) will be made available as an USB output as well with an upcoming update. But still, you would also need an external power amp in addition to the external DAC.

 

[d6jg]

This thread is bizarre.

By its very nature the WiiM Amp is not intended for use with an external DAC either upstream or downstream. Downstream isn’t even possible as the Amp has no output apart from speakers.

If you are absolutely insistent on using a DAC upstream then please explain - why buy the WiiM Amp? With respect to WiiM if you want to use it as just an Amp there are far better options out there.

 

[MPL_1961]

This thread is bizarre.

By its very nature the WiiM Amp is not intended for use with an external DAC either upstream or downstream. Downstream isn’t even possible as the Amp has no output apart from speakers.

If you are absolutely insistent on using a DAC upstream then please explain - why buy the WiiM Amp? With respect to WiiM if you want to use it as just an Amp there are far better options out there.

Hi,
Just have to respond here
I can name a few reasons why.....

A few days ago I have changed my All in One setup (WiiM Amp + Speakers) streaming Tidal from the Wiim Home App. Nothing wrong with this. And........The WiiM Amp just has a small footprint. This is also very important for me. As a devoted Apple user I really appreciate Wiim's design choices. But....I also have a Apple Music account which I really like. If I want to stream Apple Music in High Res Lossless audio I have to use a external dac as a workaround. See my sig. One way to do this is posted Here.

Reason 1:
Ecstatic reasons can be very important for users (like me) and this doesn't mean I disrespect WiiM for their design choice of a all in one product. When I bought the WiiM Amp, I very well knew the limitations regarding Apple Music not beiing implemented as a streaming service in the WiiM Home app.

Reason 2:
So....If you want to stream Apple Music in High Res and also want to keep using the WiiM Amp there are not to many options.
The Eversolo DMP A6 / A8 and FIIO R7 are the only two which can run Apple Music natively as far as i know. But both are way more expensive.
The Topping Dac I already owned is much cheaper compared to those two options. 50% less or more exactly.

Reason 3:
The Topping E70 Velvet is a better dac compared to the WiiM Amp's internal one.
It better be, IMO, looking at the price difference between the two.
Is this a very noticeable difference?? No!!....It's not night and day, nobody get's blown out of the water
But.....specialy in the mid bass region and top end it produces a fuller sound and clarity. Vocals and instruments seems slightly better separated and defined. The differences are small, but they are there. Soundstage width is about he same, but the Topping gives a bit more depth to the soundstage.

Reason 4:
The WiiM Amp does run a bit less warm during Amp duty only. Seems logical because it does not have to use it's streamer and dac.

Reason 5:
Since the Topping is used as a dac/pre-amp it makes it easier for the WiiM Amp to reach higher volumes without problems (distortion).
Not that I need those higher volumes.

On a personal note.....to complete my answer. I like the way my new setup looks, and the IPad as a touch / control screen showing Album Art,
during playback is an added bonus in my listening experience. And that's all what matters, right ?

Best regards,
Martin

 

[slartibartfast]

Hi,
Just have to respond here
I can name a few reasons why.....

A few days ago I have changed my All in One setup (WiiM Amp + Speakers) streaming Tidal from the Wiim Home App. Nothing wrong with this. And........The WiiM Amp just has a small footprint. This is also very important for me. As a devoted Apple user I really appreciate Wiim's design choices. But....I also have a Apple Music account which I really like. If I want to stream Apple Music in High Res Lossless audio I have to use a external dac as a workaround. See my sig. One way to do this is posted Here.

Reason 1:
Ecstatic reasons can be very important for users (like me) and this doesn't mean I disrespect WiiM for their design choice of a all in one product. When I bought the WiiM Amp, I very well knew the limitations regarding Apple Music not beiing implemented as a streaming service in the WiiM Home app.

Reason 2:
So....If you want to stream Apple Music in High Res and also want to keep using the WiiM Amp there are not to many options.
The Eversolo DMP A6 / A8 and FIIO R7 are the only two which can run Apple Music natively as far as i know. But both are way more expensive.
The Topping Dac I already owned is much cheaper compared to those two options. 50% less or more exactly.

Reason 3:
The Topping E70 Velvet is a better dac compared to the WiiM Amp's internal one.
It better be, IMO, looking at the price difference between the two.
Is this a very noticeable difference?? No!!....It's not night and day, nobody get's blown out of the water
But.....specialy in the mid bass region and top end it produces a fuller sound and clarity. Vocals and instruments seems slightly better separated and defined. The differences are small, but they are there. Soundstage width is about he same, but the Topping gives a bit more depth to the soundstage.

Reason 4:
The WiiM Amp does run a bit less warm during Amp duty only. Seems logical because it does not have to use it's streamer and dac.

Reason 5:
Since the Topping is used as a dac/pre-amp it makes it easier for the WiiM Amp to reach higher volumes without problems (distortion).
Not that I need those higher volumes.

On a personal note.....to complete my answer. I like the way my new setup looks, and the IPad as a touch / control screen showing Album Art,
during playback is an added bonus in my listening experience. And that's all what matters, right ?

Best regards,
Martin

If you do use an external DAC you are still using the internal DAC of the WiiM amp. The analog input is digitised by an ADC immediately and converted back to analog by the WiiM DAC.

 

[MPL_1961]

If you do use an external DAC you are still using the internal DAC of the WiiM amp. The analog input is digitised by an ADC immediately and converted back to analog by the WiiM DAC.

Good to know, something learned today. Thanks. Still......It doesn't eliminate any of the other (and probably a lot more subjective) reasons to want to use a Extarnal Dac connected to the WiiM Amp.

Edit: I still think the music sounds a little bit better. I do believe my ears. It could be caused by other variables. Apple's Streaming quality compared to Tidal, or the Pre-Amplification by the Dac in combination with the ADC conversion does something to the signal goiing in my speakers. Anyhow.....I am glad it works for me, and maybe it provideds valuable info for others who seek a solution concerning streaming Apple Music in a WiiM Amp environment.

Best regards,
Martin.

 

[d6jg]

Good to know, something learned today. Thanks. Still......It doesn't eliminate any of the other (and probably a lot more subjective) reasons to want to use a Extarnal Dac connected to the WiiM Amp.

Edit: I still think the music sounds a little bit better. I do believe my ears. It could be caused by other variables. Apple's Streaming quality compared to Tidal, or the Pre-Amplification by the Dac in combination with the ADC conversion does something to the signal goiing in my speakers. Anyhow.....I am glad it works for me, and maybe it provideds valuable info for others who seek a solution concerning streaming Apple Music in a WiiM Amp environment.

Best regards,
Martin.

I still maintain that there are many more suitable amps available for use with an upstream external DAC or upstream streamer such as a PC or Mac.

 

[slartibartfast]

I still maintain that there are many more suitable amps available for use with an upstream external DAC or upstream streamer such as a PC or Mac.

Not so many have Bass Management and Room Correction though.

 

[MPL_1961]

I still maintain that there are many more suitable amps available for use with an upstream external DAC or upstream streamer such as a PC or Mac.

Yeah, off course. Thousands of them..... Fact is the OP asked a legitimate question about a WiiM Amp he is already invested in.
Ergo....He bought the thing and is using it. Not everybody is so well informed about all the technical aspects of audio gear. I myself didn't know the Wiim Amp has a ADC built in. I assumed the line in was analog like in the more traditional A/B receivers/Amps. It's not something that has been extensively advertised, right? So why keep on riding a high horse and dismissing a legitimate question as bizarre and questioning his purchase ? You asked for reasons why and I gave you some. Peace and have a good one.

Best regards,
Martin.

 

[d6jg]

Yeah, off course. Thousands of them..... Fact is the OP asked a legitimate question about a WiiM Amp he is already invested in.
Ergo....He bought the thing and is using it. Not everybody is so well informed about all the technical aspects of audio gear. I myself didn't know the Wiim Amp has a ADC built in. I assumed the line in was analog like in the more traditional A/B receivers/Amps. It's not something that has been extensively advertised, right? So why keep on riding a high horse and dismissing a legitimate question as bizarre and questioning his purchase ? You asked for reasons why and I gave you some. Peace and have a good one.

Best regards,
Martin.

I’m not going to continue this but I think you will find that the original post was about whether you could get better SQ by using an external DAC and I was not the only one who said “why buy a WiiM amp then” where the all in one streamer, DAC and amp is its primary USP.

 

[MPL_1961]

I’m not going to continue this but I think you will find that the original post was about whether you could get better SQ by using an external DAC and I was not the only one who said “why buy a WiiM amp then” where the all in one streamer, DAC and amp is its primary USP.

let's agree to disagree then....

Best regards,
Martin.