Features wanted in a Wiim Ultra 2
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Kblade97
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I didn’t know thatNot exactly.The advantage of a balanced connection is that the signal is fed to the receiver through two hot wires instead of one. There is the signal in its original form on one hot wire and then in its inverted form on the other hot wire. This leaves a third pin for a cable shield, which only serves this one purpose (shielding) and doesn't carry any signal. An interfering signal still picked up be the cable connection will be "common" to both hot wires. The differential input amplifier on the receiving end suppresses any signal identically present on both hot wires and amplifies the differential portion only. That's about it.
You can have 2.5 or even 4 V of output voltage using RCA connections, of course. It's just relatively uncommon.
Kblade97
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I’d rather have a Toyota than a Lexus with the extra money in my pocket
EddNog
Major Contributor
You’re not looking for a flagship. We can always talk about a next-gen Pro/Pro Plus in another thread. That’s not relevant.I’d rather have a Toyota than a Lexus with the extra money in my pocket
-Ed
Trowbridge
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I actually really like the ultra headphone jack. Amazingly the sound quality is better than my Marantz stereo amp. Also I was shocked at the sound quality I gained using it attached to my TV. I heard things whilst watching wheel of time again that I never heard on stereo 70. On the streaming side my Marantz and eversolo dmp-a6 run rings round it sound wise. Bass management of the WiiM ultra I just can’t get right.
Exactly.Not exactly.
You can have 2.5 or even 4 V of output voltage using RCA connections, of course. It's just relatively uncommon.
One of the most common uses for balanced connections is in microphones and other equipment used in live performances. The signal level in microphone cables is low and the cable runs can be very long and thus susceptible to electric noise in an environment that is full of electrical equipment. The receiving device removes any noise that is identical on each hot wire. Balanced connections are also often used in recording and mastering studios which also typically have a lot of electrical equipment and therefore electrical noise.
That same principle can be used in home audio if you want to be sure no noise is introduced into the signal by other electrical equipment, which can be other audio equipment or household devices like dimmer switches and, in the old days, florescent bulbs. In most cases, it will make little or no difference, but if you want to be sure and do not mind the extra cost, then balanced cables may be appropriate.
A flagship for a Toyota is quite different from a Mercedes flagship.
If a USB-C port with DisplayPort Alternate Mode support is added to the next-gen device, will it be possible to connect and operate an external touch-screen monitor?
I'm not sure if the Ultra and Amp Ultra OS can support this feature..
I'm not sure if the Ultra and Amp Ultra OS can support this feature..
WhiteRoseAl
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I am actually hoping for a slight change in terms of product.
With Marantz and Denon, to name only two, still targeting the small hifi market with CD Player. Ruark are starting to also target this market.
I would love to see a WiiM alternative product, taking the best parts of the Ultra, Amp Ultra (100W per channel), CD player (as so many people have vast collections), a quality phono stage included. High grade metal housing for a premium finish.
Yet retaining the smaller footprint of the WiiM range, unit would be larger than the current range of course, but so many people struggle for space.
In the 90s I had stacks of Audio kit, some great gear, but I live in an audience of minimalism, smaller houses but still looking to have great quality gear.
With Marantz and Denon, to name only two, still targeting the small hifi market with CD Player. Ruark are starting to also target this market.
I would love to see a WiiM alternative product, taking the best parts of the Ultra, Amp Ultra (100W per channel), CD player (as so many people have vast collections), a quality phono stage included. High grade metal housing for a premium finish.
Yet retaining the smaller footprint of the WiiM range, unit would be larger than the current range of course, but so many people struggle for space.
In the 90s I had stacks of Audio kit, some great gear, but I live in an audience of minimalism, smaller houses but still looking to have great quality gear.
Steve Woodhouse
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I'm surprised this hasn't appeared yet (sorry if it has), but I'd like to see a better ADC stage.
Looking at the reviews with measurements which have been published, the only areas where things are less than stellar are the headphone out and analogue ins.
The beauty of Ultra is the comprehensive sound processing options (PEQ, room correcting, subwoofer out, etc.), which you don't find on most other streamers, even very expensive ones. But WiiM have cracked this, and kept it relatively cheap, by doing it all in the digital domain.
Now that's fine if you're streaming, using a digital input, or local storage, but anything analogue needs to be converted to digital before this can happen. As such, using the WiiM (in part) as a pre amp is a bit of an afterthought when it comes to analogue sources. Like the headphone out, it's useable/workmanlike, but nothing like the transparency of the digital side.
I'll chime in on the balanced outputs. They are very useful in avoiding ground loops, which can be an issue. You only need to look at Amir/ASR's review of the Vibelink to see how this can be a problem. They needn't be expensive, either. Take Topping's D10 DAC. Vanilla (RCA) version is £109, the balanced version is £139. That's not breaking the bank, especially if we're looking at a higher end (and higher priced) version of the Ultra.
@QuarryHunslet has said that without the unit being larger, there wouldn't be enough room for more ins/outs. it only really needs to be 3cm or so wider for a further set of inputs, and that would mean two sets (top and bottom).
And finally, shouldn't such a product be a plus ultra, endgame unit? If you were to release such a product without balanced outs, you've taken a reasonable chunk of prospective buyers out of the market. And whether you (or I) like it or not, there are plenty of people out there who will not consider a streamer/DAC/pre amp to be high end without balanced outs.
So, here's what I'd have:
- A better DAC chip isn't really necessary, but let's face it, if an Ultra Plus is being developed as we speak, they'll be using a better DAC chip anyway.
- Balanced Outs.
- Second set of analogue outs to connect to a headphone amp.
- Coax in.
- Better ADC.
- Screen? I think the Ultra's is too small to be useful as a visual aid, but I like the touchscreen part of it. So keep it as is, and continue perfecting the app. I think there are all sorts of things you can do here, visualisers, VU Meters galore, etc.
- Stereo Sub outs.
And...
...more WiiM products, but add ons. A CD player. A headphone amp.
Looking at the reviews with measurements which have been published, the only areas where things are less than stellar are the headphone out and analogue ins.
The beauty of Ultra is the comprehensive sound processing options (PEQ, room correcting, subwoofer out, etc.), which you don't find on most other streamers, even very expensive ones. But WiiM have cracked this, and kept it relatively cheap, by doing it all in the digital domain.
Now that's fine if you're streaming, using a digital input, or local storage, but anything analogue needs to be converted to digital before this can happen. As such, using the WiiM (in part) as a pre amp is a bit of an afterthought when it comes to analogue sources. Like the headphone out, it's useable/workmanlike, but nothing like the transparency of the digital side.
I'll chime in on the balanced outputs. They are very useful in avoiding ground loops, which can be an issue. You only need to look at Amir/ASR's review of the Vibelink to see how this can be a problem. They needn't be expensive, either. Take Topping's D10 DAC. Vanilla (RCA) version is £109, the balanced version is £139. That's not breaking the bank, especially if we're looking at a higher end (and higher priced) version of the Ultra.
@QuarryHunslet has said that without the unit being larger, there wouldn't be enough room for more ins/outs. it only really needs to be 3cm or so wider for a further set of inputs, and that would mean two sets (top and bottom).
And finally, shouldn't such a product be a plus ultra, endgame unit? If you were to release such a product without balanced outs, you've taken a reasonable chunk of prospective buyers out of the market. And whether you (or I) like it or not, there are plenty of people out there who will not consider a streamer/DAC/pre amp to be high end without balanced outs.
So, here's what I'd have:
- A better DAC chip isn't really necessary, but let's face it, if an Ultra Plus is being developed as we speak, they'll be using a better DAC chip anyway.
- Balanced Outs.
- Second set of analogue outs to connect to a headphone amp.
- Coax in.
- Better ADC.
- Screen? I think the Ultra's is too small to be useful as a visual aid, but I like the touchscreen part of it. So keep it as is, and continue perfecting the app. I think there are all sorts of things you can do here, visualisers, VU Meters galore, etc.
- Stereo Sub outs.
And...
...more WiiM products, but add ons. A CD player. A headphone amp.
hgo58
Major Contributor
For me the ultimate Ultra (Plus) would be without any analog parts and full focus on the digital handling and services. That means better CPUs, more memory, multiple digital in/out (coax, optical, usb) but no DAC or ADC.
Then if WiiM would make highend active speakers (floor standing and sub) with LinkPlay module and top-end DACs, that would be the optimal setup. Else there are many good active speakers with digital input that can be used. I really prefer active speakers with unit optimized DSP and amplifier, to standalone amplifiers and passive speakers. Let us have digital signal all the way. No need for any kind of "smart" cables.
For the WiiM Ultra Plus I would also like to see the screen extended to the full width. No need for the volume knob for me.
Then if WiiM would make highend active speakers (floor standing and sub) with LinkPlay module and top-end DACs, that would be the optimal setup. Else there are many good active speakers with digital input that can be used. I really prefer active speakers with unit optimized DSP and amplifier, to standalone amplifiers and passive speakers. Let us have digital signal all the way. No need for any kind of "smart" cables.
For the WiiM Ultra Plus I would also like to see the screen extended to the full width. No need for the volume knob for me.
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I would also like the screen and unit to be 1 inch taller as well, and this increased size would certainly allow for many more unnecessary inputs and outputs on the rear panel.
Steve Woodhouse
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I can completely see where you’re coming from. But I don’t think this would be an Ultra Plus, I think it’d be going down a different path.
you can bring the same "care" to the digital processing while keeping a dac, like a "plus plus" "plus mk2", which does not cost much to produce..and thus maintain a wider market than a "just digital"...
(Don't exaggerate...for example, someone willing to use a nice external DAC more than an internal one...the "extra cost" of the correct internal DAC is not such an obvious problem...)
hgo58
Major Contributor
It was to utilize the power and space in the device to have more memory and better CPU processing, like two sets of CPUs, one for sound processing and one for services.
As you say, probably not a big enough market for that. People (and companies) is still stuck at the old HiFi set-up format with amplifiers and passive speakers.
look at the space available in a plus an ultra etc..and your chip treatments etc in cms...
These are efforts that could be made quite simply in rereading their main streamers probably ;-)
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Danny Linguini
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‘Stuck’ is kinda harsh, don’t you think? Anyway, there’s a good reason for that. Active speakers with full DAC might serve a purpose for some folks, but definitely not all. Lots of limitations and constraints when you go down that road.
hgo58
Major Contributor
I say 'stuck' because it could be different if people want it. I see a lot of benefits in having the DAC and Amps as part of the speaker itself. Allowing the set to be fine tuned to the sound the manufacturer wants.
Avoiding any analog parts in the signal chain would eliminate much of the issue with noise, ground loops, etc.
What are the limitations and constraints?
Unfortunately, that limits your options over time. I have had 3 DACs and 2 preamps in my system with the same speakers. With separates, I can fine tune the sound rather than getting just what the manufacturer wants.
