Hypothetical Setup Question

[EddNog]

Would it be possible to use two WiiMs together to set up a full 2.2 setup? For example, WiiM Ultra as main, "head unit," hooked up to main loudspeakers, with bass management turned on and high-pass crossover turned on to the main loudspeakers, nothing attached to the subwoofer LFE output. Then using Group functionality, sync in a second WiiM, say a WiiM Pro or Pro Plus, then attach a pair of subwoofers to the RCA L/R line outs of the WiiM Amp, and use the Low-Pass Filter on the subwoofers to cross them over to the speakers attached to the WiiM Ultra? Place one subwoofer at the bass of each loudspeaker, especially if using standmounts, maybe use a subwoofer as a base for each loudspeaker, and use a desktop speaker stand to mount each loudspeaker on top of a sub. So left speaker attached to WiiM Ultra's left line out, right speaker attached to WiiM Ultra's right line out, left subwoofer attached to WiiM Pro's left line out, right subwoofer attached to WiiM Pro's right line out, Subwoofer turned on in WiiM Ultra, with crossover/high-pass filter set at X Hz, and then the Low-Pass filters in each of the subs set to X Hz, 24dB/octave, WiiM Pro or Pro Plus playing full-range.

Do you guys think this would work to achieve a 2.2 setup? Has anyone tried or even uses this now? In theory this would allow much higher crossover setting without detriment to imaging. I am thinking to do this possibly with my pair of LS50 Metas in conjunction with two SVS 3000-Micros to create a, "poor man's Blade 2 Meta."

-Ed

 

[Mr Ee]

Why do you think this wouldn't work?
It's just grouped wiims outputting to their own speakers where one set of speakers are subs.

 

[Ronnie D]

Has anyone tried or even uses this

@Wiimer Does this

 

[Ivan]

I'm asking a really stupid question and not to be argumentative, but wouldn't it be easier to buy two good 3-way speakers that already have good bass?
I don't understand this whole craze for sub woofers (which in my opinion comes from the 2000s because of the home theater wave etc...).
When hi-fi was a serious thing, even just talking about sub woofers was ridiculous.

 

[EddNog]

I'm asking a really stupid question and not to be argumentative, but wouldn't it be easier to buy two good 3-way speakers that already have good bass?
I don't understand this whole craze for sub woofers (which in my opinion comes from the 2000s because of the home theater wave etc...).
When hi-fi was a serious thing, even just talking about sub woofers was ridiculous.

I already have the LS50 Metas and one 3000-Micro. A second sub plus streamer costs a WHOLE lot less than a pair of comparatively performing floorstanders.

Why do you think this wouldn't work?
It's just grouped wiims outputting to their own speakers where one set of speakers are subs.

I’m mostly curious if getting the time alignment right is difficult or not, and whether or not there are lip sync issues watching content over ARC.

@Wiimer Does this
View attachment 21750

Thanks! @Wiimer Any advice?

-Ed

 

[harkpabst]

I'm asking a really stupid question and not to be argumentative, but wouldn't it be easier to buy two good 3-way speakers that already have good bass?
I don't understand this whole craze for sub woofers (which in my opinion comes from the 2000s because of the home theater wave etc...).
When hi-fi was a serious thing, even just talking about sub woofers was ridiculous.

The best placement in the room for bass is not necessarily the same as the best placement for overall sound. In fact, it usually isn't.

No matter how good your 3-way speakers are, a good subwoofer (even better: two of them) combined with whatever speakers always have the potential to better big speakers with no sub.

 

[Wiimer]

I already have the LS50 Metas and one 3000-Micro. A second sub plus streamer costs a WHOLE lot less than a pair of comparatively performing floorstanders.


I’m mostly curious if getting the time alignment right is difficult or not, and whether or not there are lip sync issues watching content over ARC.


Thanks! @Wiimer Any advice?

-Ed

Yes, it is possible, but unfortunately the WiiM amp does not have a line-out..

I have 2 subs connected in stereo to the Pro's line-out. I use the sub's low-pass filter in conjunction with the WiiM's PEQ; I use the MRM's manual sync to adjustment for the delay between the main speakers and the subs.

 

[canard]

The best placement in the room for bass is not necessarily the same as the best placement for overall sound. In fact, it usually isn't.

No matter how good your 3-way speakers are, a good subwoofer (even better: two of them) combined with whatever speakers always have the potential to better big speakers with no sub.

but it requires a bit of energy, skills, time, experimentation, active filtering capabilities, mesureaments etc... the list is quite long ;-)

 

[Wiimer]

, and whether or not there are lip sync issues watching content over ARC.

With the group audio delay feature, the ARC audio delay is about 70 ms.

My sub doesn't have an accurate low pass filter, so I use a manual PEQ PK to adjust it closer to 24dB/oct, but it's not perfect. As @canard said, honestly it is not easy for me.
(But I am sure you will do better than me.)

 

[EddNog]

Yes, it is possible, but unfortunately the WiiM amp does not have a line-out..

I have 2 subs connected in stereo to the Pro's line-out. I use the sub's low-pass filter in conjunction with the WiiM's PEQ; I use the MRM's manual sync to adjustment for the delay between the main speakers and the subs.

Sorry--what is MRM?

Thank you for pointing out a glaring error on my part--I didn't mean WiiM Amp/Amp Pro, I meant WiiM Pro/Pro Plus. Editing original posts for clarity!

-Ed

 

[Wiimer]

Sorry--what is MRM?

Sorry, I mean Multi-Room Music group.

 

[EddNog]

With the group audio delay feature, the ARC audio delay is about 70 ms.

My sub doesn't have an accurate low pass filter, so I use a manual PEQ PK to adjust it closer to 24dB/oct, but it's not perfect. As @canard said, honestly it is not easy for me.
(But I am sure you will do better than me.)

Okay, I see. So the MRM has to do with your subwoofer's inaccurate low pass filter control. I understand now.

I haven't had too many problems with the one in my SVS subs' DSPs.

70ms isn't terrible. I guess I'd have to test this theory with a second streamer in grouping before investing in the second subwoofer. If it introduces too much lip sync lag, I can just return the streamer and abandon the plan all together.

but it requires a bit of energy, skills, time, experimentation, active filtering capabilities, mesureaments etc... the list is quite long ;-)

Indeed--in this case, would be worth the effort as I do not have the funds to buy the kind of floorstanders I want (at minimum KEF R7 Meta).

-Ed

 

[harkpabst]

but it requires a bit of energy, skills, time, experimentation, active filtering capabilities, mesureaments etc... the list is quite long ;-)

Just placing big speakers anywhere won't get you fat, either. It's not that much of a difference in the end, just a slightly different skill set.

Once you have heard what e.g. a pair of KEF LS50 (Meta) can do when thei are relieved from heavy bass duties, there'll be no further questions if this is worth it or not.

Ask @EddNog!

 

[EddNog]

Yes, hence my desire to relieve even more of the bass by having a sub near/at each of the speakers that is fed channel-specific sound, which would minimize localization issues with even higher crossover points.

-Ed

 

[canard]

Just placing big speakers anywhere won't get you fat, either. It's not that much of a difference in the end, just a slightly different skill set.

Once you have heard what e.g. a pair of KEF LS50 (Meta) can do when thei are relieved from heavy bass duties, there'll be no further questions if this is worth it or not.

Ask @EddNog!

I would like Wiim Home to offer a high-pass that is a bit adjustable...for other Wiim products...not just those with a sub output...
(ps the sub actif..you have to be able to power them, cables etc...)

 

[Wiimer]

Okay, I see. So the MRM has to do with your subwoofer's inaccurate low pass filter control. I understand now.

I haven't had too many problems with the one in my SVS subs' DSPs.

70ms isn't terrible. I guess I'd have to test this theory with a second streamer in grouping before investing in the second subwoofer. If it introduces too much lip sync lag, I can just return the streamer and abandon the plan all together.


Indeed--in this case, would be worth the effort as I do not have the funds to buy the kind of floorstanders I want (at minimum KEF R7 Meta).

-Ed

To simplify volume control for MRM group playback, I recommend first setting the WiiM app slide bar to the same value.


Then adjust by sub volume, WiiM line out level or volume limit.

 

[jed1]

From another thread, at some point in the future, lowpass / highpass filter will be added as WiiM support confirmed. When it happens, I believe MRM-based 2.2 set up will be straightforward. Until then, I rely on subwoofer's highpass line output to drive active main speakers.

wouldn't it be easier to buy two good 3-way speakers that already have good bass?

For Ivan's question, some floorstand speakers have built-in "active / powered" subwoofers. That's because it takes a lot of air volume movement for good amount of bass - high excursion speaker driver with large surface area.

 

[FedotovKA]

I'm asking a really stupid question and not to be argumentative, but wouldn't it be easier to buy two good 3-way speakers that already have good bass?
I don't understand this whole craze for sub woofers (which in my opinion comes from the 2000s because of the home theater wave etc...).
When hi-fi was a serious thing, even just talking about sub woofers was ridiculous.

I'm asking a really stupid question and not to be argumentative, but wouldn't it be easier to buy two good 3-way speakers that already have good bass?
I don't understand this whole craze for sub woofers (which in my opinion comes from the 2000s because of the home theater wave etc...).
When hi-fi was a serious thing, even just talking about sub woofers was ridiculous.

Привет земляк! (Ты же земляк?))

I thought the same, considering that I have 3.5-way speakers that play very low on Scan Speak and Sias drivers.
But by adding a good subwoofer, I was able to achieve what I couldn't before - the sub covered the room's dips (modes) and relieved the main speakers. Basically, everything became more even. Without a subwoofer, it's impossible to achieve this in principle, unless you cover the walls with 80 cm of insulation or build-in the speakers into the wall.