Incredible Airplay on Ultra, for free

[Dude]

Airplay from Phone to Airport Express v2 I already owned, Firmware Airplay (1) so is 16/44 lossless, to Toslink into Ultra. Sounds amazing. WiiM should have just included it!



(Note: Hi-Res Lossless button on Dominique Nameless song is what is capable, not what is playing: LPCM 16/44.1 lossless.)

 

[mrgsteele]

That's what I'd been doing when I stopped using Tidal/Roon and it works great. But I recently started using Lyrion Music Server with the ShaireTunes2 addon, and it's even better because you get to see the album info on the Ultra's screen, and it also gives you control of the Ultra volume knob. It does require an always-on computer though.

 

[BMeek]

Airplay from Phone to Airport Express v2 I already owned, Firmware Airplay (1) so is 16/44 lossless, to Toslink into Ultra. Sounds amazing. WiiM should have just included it!

Dude! [couldn't resist]. I've got an old (1st-gen) Apple TV 4K I already owned feeding my WiiM Ultra, and I'm using it to AirPlay into a WiiM speaker Group. I could've used AirPlay to go to the other speaker in the WiiM group, but they're in overlapping zones and WiiM's got audibly tighter sync.

Perhaps our two examples supports WiiM's decision to leave the AirPlay 2 receiver out?

Your use case sort of seems like the long way around the block for an inaudible upgrade - you might get better iPhone battery just going Bluetooth direct to the Ultra. I betcha a dollar you wouldn't hear the difference in a blind listening test .

That said, leveraging the old AirPort Express is pretty cool and a useful audio path to have feeding a preamp!

 

[FreakyKiwi]

WiiM should have just included it.

I'm sure they wanted to.

I gather there was some legal action from Apple to block it due to Wiim including Airplay cast in previous models, presumably by using open source code.

All talk of it was banned from the forum at the time so I'm only speculating.

 

[EddNog]

Dude! [couldn't resist]. I've got an old (1st-gen) Apple TV 4K I already owned feeding my WiiM Ultra, and I'm using it to AirPlay into a WiiM speaker Group. I could've used AirPlay to go to the other speaker in the WiiM group, but they're in overlapping zones and WiiM's got audibly tighter sync.

Perhaps our two examples supports WiiM's decision to leave the AirPlay 2 receiver out?

Your use case sort of seems like the long way around the block for an inaudible upgrade - you might get better iPhone battery just going Bluetooth direct to the Ultra. I betcha a dollar you wouldn't hear the difference in a blind listening test .

That said, leveraging the old AirPort Express is pretty cool and a useful audio path to have feeding a preamp!

AAC over Bluetooth sounds like . I've been able to successfully pick Bluetooth out from analog line in on my car's factory Bose sound system in a blind test with 100% accuracy before. Let's not even talk about a properly resolving system in a lower noise-floor environment. If you said you'd bet me a dollar I can't pick out LDAC from LHDC from AptX Lossless from AptX HD, I'd say you're probably right, but AAC is absolute trash with any halfway decently resolving setup.

-Ed

 

[Dude]

Perhaps our two examples supports WiiM's decision to leave the AirPlay 2 receiver out?

No.

Your use case sort of seems like the long way around the block for an inaudible upgrade

It is audibly better on an audiophile or decent consumer hifi system. Plugging Toslink in an Express right next to it is not long way around at all. The Express was long ago repurposed only as Airplay 1 device, nothing else.

- you might get better iPhone battery just going Bluetooth direct to the Ultra. I betcha a dollar you wouldn't hear the difference in a blind listening test .

Airplay is not a battery draining technology. I just listened two hours and the battery percent did not change. I have seen this many times before.

 

[GeeJay]

Dude! [couldn't resist]. I've got an old (1st-gen) Apple TV 4K I already owned feeding my WiiM Ultra, and I'm using it to AirPlay into a WiiM speaker Group. I could've used AirPlay to go to the other speaker in the WiiM group, but they're in overlapping zones and WiiM's got audibly tighter sync.

Perhaps our two examples supports WiiM's decision to leave the AirPlay 2 receiver out?

Your use case sort of seems like the long way around the block for an inaudible upgrade - you might get better iPhone battery just going Bluetooth direct to the Ultra. I betcha a dollar you wouldn't hear the difference in a blind listening test .

That said, leveraging the old AirPort Express is pretty cool and a useful audio path to have feeding a preamp!

Can Bluetooth stream CD or better lossless audio?

 

[EddNog]

Can Bluetooth stream CD or better lossless audio?

Not without supporting special protocols in both the source and recipient devices. You'd need the streamer as well as the headphones to support something like AptX Lossless.

-Ed

 

[Dude]

Can Bluetooth stream CD or better lossless audio?

Bluetooth is always lossy, even “lossless” Bluetooth.
Airplay is not Bluetooth
Airplay (1) is lossless, 16/44.1
Airplay 2 is lossless 16/44.1 or lossy AAC 256 depending on various factors.

 

[Dude]

Not without supporting special protocols in both the source and recipient devices. You'd need the streamer as well as the headphones to support something like AptX Lossless.

-Ed

AptX is never fully lossless

 

[EddNog]

AptX is never fully lossless

¯\_(ツ)_/¯

At some point, it is sufficiently transparent that it doesn’t matter. AAC is shit, but plenty of the better quality protocols are definitely transparent enough that in day to day listening, especially in the situations that (well, at least I) tend to use wireless, like commuting on a train etc. the difference is utterly imperceptible.

I don’t know about you, but if I’m actually critically listening, I wouldn’t even consider wireless, but maybe that’s just me. For the scenarios I use Bluetooth, like on the train or walking around the city, the difference between true wireless and something like AptX Adaptivr is really not worth fretting over considering the convenience factor.

-Ed

 

[FreakyKiwi]

¯\_(ツ)_/¯

At some point, it is sufficiently transparent that it doesn’t matter. AAC is shit, but plenty of the better quality protocols are definitely transparent enough that in day to day listening, especially in the situations that (well, at least I) tend to use wireless, like commuting on a train etc. the difference is utterly imperceptible.

I don’t know about you, but if I’m actually critically listening, I wouldn’t even consider wireless, but maybe that’s just me. For the scenarios I use Bluetooth, like on the train or walking around the city, the difference between true wireless and something like AptX Adaptivr is really not worth fretting over considering the convenience factor.

-Ed

I personally only use LDAC Bluetooth for audio when I need to, but I have read very favourable tests of Apple's AAC implementation (if you are so inclined), which even the $$$ Airpods max use.

By comparison Android's AAC implementation is crap.

My take is that bluetooth is a flawed technology which I only use sparingly when essential or for convenience.

Part II: Comparison of Bluetooth Fidelity - AAC encoder quality (Android 10 & 13, Windows 11, Apple iPhones & Mac)

A blog for audiophiles about more objective topics. Measurements of audio gear. Reasonable, realistic, no snakeoil assessment of sound, and equipment.

archimago.blogspot.com

 

[EddNog]

I personally only use LDAC Bluetooth for audio when I need to, but I have read very favourable tests of Apple's AAC implementation (if you are so inclined), which even the $$$ Airpods max use.

By comparison Android's AAC implementation is crap.

My take is that bluetooth is a flawed technology which I only use sparingly when essential or for convenience.

Part II: Comparison of Bluetooth Fidelity - AAC encoder quality (Android 10 & 13, Windows 11, Apple iPhones & Mac)

A blog for audiophiles about more objective topics. Measurements of audio gear. Reasonable, realistic, no snakeoil assessment of sound, and equipment.

archimago.blogspot.com

I own AirPods Pro 3 and AirPods Max (original Lightning version); they do sound pretty decent, but the true strength is their industry-leading ANC and Transparency modes. For actual sound quality, they’re decent but not the best. Nowadays, when weather is cool enough, my go-to wireless/ANC cans for commuting are my Sennheiser HDB 630. When it’s too hot for closed-back cans, I revert to the AirPods Pro 3 or my ThieAudio Hype 4s when passive noise blocking is sufficient.

-Ed

 

[MrMan]

I've got an old (1st-gen) Apple TV 4K I already owned feeding my WiiM Ultra, and I'm using it to AirPlay into a WiiM speaker Group

Don't you need a TV in the chain for his to work? Eg: ATV > TV> Ultra

Are you saying this works with ATV > Ultra?

 

[EddNog]

Don't you need a TV in the chain for his to work? Eg: ATV > TV> Ultra

Are you saying this works with ATV > Ultra?

You need a TV in the middle for ARC to work, correct.

-Ed

 

[ByteCurious]

Im playing Hi-Res Lossless Apple Music to the Ultra and it’s all done with via my version of “Apple Connect” setup.

 

[Dude]

¯\_(ツ)_/¯

At some point, it is sufficiently transparent that it doesn’t matter. AAC is shit, but plenty of the better quality protocols are definitely transparent enough that in day to day listening, especially in the situations that (well, at least I) tend to use wireless, like commuting on a train etc. the difference is utterly imperceptible.

I don’t know about you, but if I’m actually critically listening, I wouldn’t even consider wireless, but maybe that’s just me. For the scenarios I use Bluetooth, like on the train or walking around the city, the difference between true wireless and something like AptX Adaptivr is really not worth fretting over considering the convenience factor.

-Ed

This is what I meant.

 

[jjue1979]

Don't you need a TV in the chain for his to work? Eg: ATV > TV> Ultra

Are you saying this works with ATV > Ultra?

Or insert an HDMI to Optical converter

 

[EddNog]

Or insert an HDMI to Optical converter

This will kill the ability to control WiiM’s volume from the Apple TV 4K’s remote.

-Ed

 

[BMeek]

[...]
Your use case sort of seems like the long way around the block for an inaudible upgrade - you might get better iPhone battery just going Bluetooth direct to the Ultra. I betcha a dollar you wouldn't hear the difference in a blind listening test .

I concede this was a nonsensical assertion. It sure kept the thread going at any rate.

Perhaps I was thinking to tease @Dude for the 'long way around the block' because I do the same sort of thing all the time while realizing my 60-year-old-ears probably won't appreciate the subtle differences.

FWIW, I do most of critical my listening with an iFi Zen DAC 3 >[balanced]> iFi Zen CAN Signature headphone amp >[balanced]> Sony MDR-MV1headphones setup (or I might choose another one of the way too many other expensive headphones I've habitually bought).

On the Bluetooth front my experience with Apple's AAC codec hasn't caused me to view it as @EddNog does, but this reminds me of the starkest difference I recall: After a long walk wearing a pair of Koss Porta Pro Wireless headphones connected to my iPhone, I wondered how much better they would sound using their 3.5mm audio cable plugged into the aforementioned Zen CAN stack... They sounded MUCH better plugged in! It was very noticeable! I figured I was mostly hearing the premium DAC and headphone amp compared to the Bluetooth chipset DAC and tiny batteries in the Porta Pro Wireless, but yeah, my earlier comment was silly in any case.