L/R channel Room Correction with subwoofer using REW

slartibartfast

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Since WiiM seem to be having difficulty in getting Room Correction working with L/R channel PEQ and a subwoofer I tried using REW. I measured both channels individually using pink noise and the Moving Magnet Method. My target curve was a modified B&K curve to remove the bass boost caused by correlated signals in the subwoofer. My subwoofer crossover frequency was 80Hz and I modified the target by reducing the level by 3dB/octave between 100Hz and 60Hz. The red curve is the left channel plus sub, the blue curve is the right channel plus sub and the green curve is the final result while playing both channels plus subwoofer. I was surprised to see a dip in the final result at a frequency where neither channel had a dip but it sounds fine.


LR.jpg
 
Since WiiM seem to be having difficulty in getting Room Correction working with L/R channel PEQ and a subwoofer I tried using REW. I measured both channels individually using pink noise and the Moving Magnet Method. My target curve was a modified B&K curve to remove the bass boost caused by correlated signals in the subwoofer. My subwoofer crossover frequency was 80Hz and I modified the target by reducing the level by 3dB/octave between 100Hz and 60Hz. The red curve is the left channel plus sub, the blue curve is the right channel plus sub and the green curve is the final result while playing both channels plus subwoofer. I was surprised to see a dip in the final result at a frequency where neither channel had a dip but it sounds fine.


View attachment 15769
How’s does it sound? We’ve been doing so much time measurement that we spend less time listening trying to get the sound we seek. The tread is become measuring tread and not saying how they like the outcome. Everyone ear is different and I think once they run rc and if they don’t like what they hear they can manually tweak it to their liking or turn it off. I just run rc one time and that’s it no point of running multiple times comparing and contrasting or otherwise I just use my wiim as a toy to play on measuring to feast my eyes. Enjoy the music!
 
How’s does it sound? We’ve been doing so much time measurement that we spend less time listening trying to get the sound we seek. The tread is become measuring tread and not saying how they like the outcome. Everyone ear is different and I think once they run rc and if they don’t like what they hear they can manually tweak it to their liking or turn it off. I just run rc one time and that’s it no point of running multiple times comparing and contrasting or otherwise I just use my wiim as a toy to play on measuring to feast my eyes. Enjoy the music!
I sounds fine, but then so did stereo room correction. The biggest improvement was using the UMIK-1 mic.
 
I sounds fine, but then so did stereo room correction. The biggest improvement was using the UMIK-1 mic.
Happy new year! You think if I get umik 1 to use on my iPhone would be night and day difference? I ask because umik is not a cheap mic and if it’s just gives me 5 percent increase over iPhone mic I don’t see it’s a good investment.
 
does the subwoofer channel get corrected of the sum of left and right correction when using L/R PEQ?
 
Happy new year! You think if I get umik 1 to use on my iPhone would be night and day difference? I ask because umik is not a cheap mic and if it’s just gives me 5 percent increase over iPhone mic I don’t see it’s a good investment.
I have no idea how well the iPhone mic works. In my case the iMM6 low end was rolled off by the phone ADC circuit. You need to find someone locally who has one and borrow it.
 
does the subwoofer channel get corrected of the sum of left and right correction when using L/R PEQ?
It doesn’t work with sub only stereo rc. When you turn off the sub and run rc it will give a choice which one. If it’s on, it’s straight stereo rc.
 
I have no idea how well the iPhone mic works. In my case the iMM6 low end was rolled off by the phone ADC circuit. You need to find someone locally who has one and borrow it.
When you get a chance can you please compare and contrast usb and coax output? I could hear some difference between the two. I google it and found the answer According to many audiophiles, a coaxial connection can sometimes sound better than a USB connection, with some describing the coax sound as more full, rich, and dynamic, while USB may sound clearer and more detailed but potentially lacking in musical "punch.". However, the difference can be subtle and depends heavily on the quality of the DAC and the specific setup used, with some users not noticing a significant difference at all.
 
does the subwoofer channel get corrected of the sum of left and right correction when using L/R PEQ?
I copied across the filters from REW to the L/R PEQ settings of the WiiM. The corrected left and right signals will be combined in the same way as the non corrected signals in the subwoofer.
 
I sounds fine, but then so did stereo room correction. The biggest improvement was using the UMIK-1 mic.

In my opinion and in my setup, L/R setup adds clearly more space to the soundstage and instrument seperation is pronounced!
This makes also rationally sense, as the corrected L/R signals are different from each other, even if the signal would be mono.

I very much like it❣️ Honestly I don‘t know if this result can be much further improved. Maybe with additional timing alignment.
The difference from the original output (without RC) when I bought the Pro+ to the now corrected Room Acoustic is astonishing! 👏🏻🤩
 
Since WiiM seem to be having difficulty in getting Room Correction working with L/R channel PEQ and a subwoofer I tried using REW. I measured both channels individually using pink noise and the Moving Magnet Method. My target curve was a modified B&K curve to remove the bass boost caused by correlated signals in the subwoofer. My subwoofer crossover frequency was 80Hz and I modified the target by reducing the level by 3dB/octave between 100Hz and 60Hz. The red curve is the left channel plus sub, the blue curve is the right channel plus sub and the green curve is the final result while playing both channels plus subwoofer. I was surprised to see a dip in the final result at a frequency where neither channel had a dip but it sounds fine.


View attachment 15769

This looks great! 👍🏻
 
Since WiiM seem to be having difficulty in getting Room Correction working with L/R channel PEQ and a subwoofer I tried using REW. I measured both channels individually using pink noise and the Moving Magnet Method. My target curve was a modified B&K curve to remove the bass boost caused by correlated signals in the subwoofer. My subwoofer crossover frequency was 80Hz and I modified the target by reducing the level by 3dB/octave between 100Hz and 60Hz. The red curve is the left channel plus sub, the blue curve is the right channel plus sub and the green curve is the final result while playing both channels plus subwoofer. I was surprised to see a dip in the final result at a frequency where neither channel had a dip but it sounds fine.
I've been following the various RC threads since I just recently purchased an Ultra and a SVS 3000 Micro to replace an old NHT sub. My main speakers are Sonus Faber Veneres, driven by Emotiva amps. I'm beginning to play with Ultra's RC feature, fed by a Umik-1 and validated/tweaked by REW measurements. So, what I'm working with isn't too different from your set-up, it appears. First, thanks for all the useful posts you (and several others) have provided on this topic. These threads have helped me get up to speed. Second, a friendly LOL at your Freudian? slip referring to the "Moving Magnet Method". :cool:

The text in your quoted post above that I've bolded seems to indicate that you're setting a crossover on your sub, itself, rather than utilizing sub management in WiiM. Thus, am I correct to assume that you're doing nothing to attenuate the output of your main speakers below 80Hz? If so, is this being done because you're not worried about relieving your main speakers from the low frequency load or is it being done because you don't think there's any way in the WiiM world to effectively high pass filter your mains while also utilizing the channel-specific PEQs?

Based on my (very) preliminary experiments, it appears that the WiiM app doesn't support the Sub management options during per-channel RC measurement but that it does not restrict you from using per-channel equalization simultaneously with sub management. If I'm correct here, then isn''t the optimal solution to do the testing/measuring in REW on a per channel basis but with the sub management turned on in WiiM? Then, just (manually...sigh) feed the REW filter values into one of your custom per-channel PEQ filter groups and apply this custom EQ while also utilizing WiiM's sub management. To me, this seems to involve the same amount of effort you went through with doing your measurements in REW, but with the added advantage of fully leveraging WiiMs sub management capabilities. Am I missing something here? Would appreciate feedback so that I don't waste time (and annoy my wife even more than I usually do with my audio tweaking)!
 
I've been following the various RC threads since I just recently purchased an Ultra and a SVS 3000 Micro to replace an old NHT sub. My main speakers are Sonus Faber Veneres, driven by Emotiva amps. I'm beginning to play with Ultra's RC feature, fed by a Umik-1 and validated/tweaked by REW measurements. So, what I'm working with isn't too different from your set-up, it appears. First, thanks for all the useful posts you (and several others) have provided on this topic. These threads have helped me get up to speed. Second, a friendly LOL at your Freudian? slip referring to the "Moving Magnet Method". :cool:

The text in your quoted post above that I've bolded seems to indicate that you're setting a crossover on your sub, itself, rather than utilizing sub management in WiiM. Thus, am I correct to assume that you're doing nothing to attenuate the output of your main speakers below 80Hz? If so, is this being done because you're not worried about relieving your main speakers from the low frequency load or is it being done because you don't think there's any way in the WiiM world to effectively high pass filter your mains while also utilizing the channel-specific PEQs?

Based on my (very) preliminary experiments, it appears that the WiiM app doesn't support the Sub management options during per-channel RC measurement but that it does not restrict you from using per-channel equalization simultaneously with sub management. If I'm correct here, then isn''t the optimal solution to do the testing/measuring in REW on a per channel basis but with the sub management turned on in WiiM? Then, just (manually...sigh) feed the REW filter values into one of your custom per-channel PEQ filter groups and apply this custom EQ while also utilizing WiiM's sub management. To me, this seems to involve the same amount of effort you went through with doing your measurements in REW, but with the added advantage of fully leveraging WiiMs sub management capabilities. Am I missing something here? Would appreciate feedback so that I don't waste time (and annoy my wife even more than I usually do with my audio tweaking)!
Nobody else noticed the Moving Magnet Method, well spotted 🤣
 
I've been following the various RC threads since I just recently purchased an Ultra and a SVS 3000 Micro to replace an old NHT sub. My main speakers are Sonus Faber Veneres, driven by Emotiva amps. I'm beginning to play with Ultra's RC feature, fed by a Umik-1 and validated/tweaked by REW measurements. So, what I'm working with isn't too different from your set-up, it appears. First, thanks for all the useful posts you (and several others) have provided on this topic. These threads have helped me get up to speed. Second, a friendly LOL at your Freudian? slip referring to the "Moving Magnet Method". :cool:

The text in your quoted post above that I've bolded seems to indicate that you're setting a crossover on your sub, itself, rather than utilizing sub management in WiiM. Thus, am I correct to assume that you're doing nothing to attenuate the output of your main speakers below 80Hz? If so, is this being done because you're not worried about relieving your main speakers from the low frequency load or is it being done because you don't think there's any way in the WiiM world to effectively high pass filter your mains while also utilizing the channel-specific PEQs?

Based on my (very) preliminary experiments, it appears that the WiiM app doesn't support the Sub management options during per-channel RC measurement but that it does not restrict you from using per-channel equalization simultaneously with sub management. If I'm correct here, then isn''t the optimal solution to do the testing/measuring in REW on a per channel basis but with the sub management turned on in WiiM? Then, just (manually...sigh) feed the REW filter values into one of your custom per-channel PEQ filter groups and apply this custom EQ while also utilizing WiiM's sub management. To me, this seems to involve the same amount of effort you went through with doing your measurements in REW, but with the added advantage of fully leveraging WiiMs sub management capabilities. Am I missing something here? Would appreciate feedback so that I don't waste time (and annoy my wife even more than I usually do with my audio tweaking)!
I am using the WiiM crossover setting. I am doing exactly the same as you propose in the final paragraph 😃. I have to do all my measurements when I am alone in the house or before my partner gets up or after she's gone to bed 🤣
 
First, thanks for all the useful posts you (and several others) have provided on this topic. These threads have helped me get up to speed.

The text in your quoted post above that I've bolded seems to indicate that you're setting a crossover on your sub, itself, rather than utilizing sub management in WiiM. Thus, am I correct to assume that you're doing nothing to attenuate the output of your main speakers below 80Hz? If so, is this being done because you're not worried about relieving your main speakers from the low frequency load or is it being done because you don't think there's any way in the WiiM world to effectively high pass filter your mains while also utilizing the channel-specific PEQs?

👍🏻

I‘ll do that indirecly by increasing the gain of the sub substantially.
With RC this will be corrected down and with it the load of the Mid/Bass driver of my ProAc speakers…
 
Nobody else noticed the Moving Magnet Method, well spotted 🤣
Well if you had used a dynamic microphone, you would've been technically sort of correct to call it a moving magnet method.👂 (And thanks for the clarification. Now I just need to find some time when my wife isn't going to give me grief about the testing...)
 
👍🏻

I‘ll do that indirecly by increasing the gain of the sub substantially.
With RC this will be corrected down and with it the load of the Mid/Bass driver of my ProAc speakers…
That's an option, but it seems like a less optimal approach - especially if you're already dealing with bass issues that would be compounded by biasing the sub with more gain. Correct me if I'm thinking about this the wrong way.

On a somewhat related note, I'd welcome input on an idea I have. My new SVS sub has 3-band PEQ functionality built into it. I haven't done anything with it yet, but I've been noodling with using it to handle any required equalization in the frequency range I'm directing toward the sub. It may be overkill and unnecessary to begin with, but it would allow dedicated use of the 10 WiiM PEQ filters (per channel) for the main speakers. Worth a try or does this open up a can of worms by having two sets of equalizations (albeit segregated by frequency range) running at the same time???
 
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