Multiroom of hi-res audio

[ccristal]

Hi!
The latest roadmap for the Wiim Mini mentions "Multiroom of hi-res audio" as one of the features the @WiiM Team is thinking of supporting.
I appreciate it may not have been designed yet. However, I have a few questions about it:

1. Is there a rough timeframe for it yet?
2. When it gets implemented, will it require a firmware update on the slaves, as well as the master?
3. If so, will Audio Pro speakers get such an update? I have 2 Audio Pro C3s as slaves, and their firmware has not been updated since November 2021, so getting a bit concerned they may not support hi-res multiroom, once it goes live.

Thank you for any information you may be able to share...

 

[KrimsonAudio]

Mine seems to work? I've verified only within my own set up. I don't see it being verified anywhere by wiim. Right now, I'm jammin that Chameleon by Herby Handcock on Wiim Home (Tidal) through 4 rooms at what is supposedly FLAC 2657kbps 24/96.

Uploaded the screen shot... notice the +3 in the bottom left

 

[rubato]

I've noticed that if I start a high-res Qobuz track playing on a single WiiM, and then add other units to the group, it continues to report playing in high-res, but subsequent tracks revert to 44.1. Is the first track really still playing in high-res, or is the WHA just reporting it that way? I don't know. My ears can't reliably tell the difference, and I don't know any other way to measure it.

 

[Burnside]

Mine seems to work? I've verified only within my own set up. I don't see it being verified anywhere by wiim. Right now, I'm jammin that Chameleon by Herby Handcock on Wiim Home (Tidal) through 4 rooms at what is supposedly FLAC 2657kbps 24/96.

Uploaded the screen shot... notice the +3 in the bottom left

That’s showing the input signal. When I create a similar group and play a 24/192 track to a group, I can check by their connection to my amp that only 16/48 is being delivered to each, so no hi res multiroom as yet I’m afraid

 

[rubato]

My ears can't reliably tell the difference, and I don't know any other way to measure it.

If I really wanted to know, I could probably download Wireshark and study the network traffic on my LAN, but I'm not that interested.

 

[Burnside]

If I really wanted to know, I could probably download Wireshark and study the network traffic on my LAN, but I'm not that interested.

I’m more than happy believing what my amp tells me it’s receiving from my WiiM devices in multiroom playback.

 

[dtc]

Hi!
The latest roadmap for the Wiim Mini mentions "Multiroom of hi-res audio" as one of the features the @WiiM Team is thinking of supporting.
I appreciate it may not have been designed yet. However, I have a few questions about it:

1. Is there a rough timeframe for it yet?
2. When it gets implemented, will it require a firmware update on the slaves, as well as the master?
3. If so, will Audio Pro speakers get such an update? I have 2 Audio Pro C3s as slaves, and their firmware has not been updated since November 2021, so getting a bit concerned they may not support hi-res multiroom, once it goes live.

Thank you for any information you may be able to share...

It also says "across Roon Ready and Google Cast endpoints". It does not appear to say anything about high-resolution across all Wiim devices. So, it is not clear how "Universal" that is. Hopefully it includes all Wiim devices, although that is not clear to me.

• Universal Hi-Res Multi-Room: Expanded support for high-resolution grouping across Roon Ready and Google Cast endpoints.

 

[Burnside]

It also says "across Roon Ready and Google Cast endpoints". It does not appear to say anything about high-resolution across all Wiim devices. So, it is not clear how "Universal" that is. Hopefully it includes all Wiim devices, although that is not clear to me.

• Universal Hi-Res Multi-Room: Expanded support for high-resolution grouping across Roon Ready and Google Cast endpoints.

I can already use a Chromecast group of Wiim devices and cast 24/96 from the Qobuz app to all of them…

 

[dtc]

I can already use a Chromecast group of Wiim devices and cast 24/96 from the Qobuz app to all of them…

The issue is whether you can connect Wiim devices like my PROs at 24/192 with the native Wiim system. I want to play high-resolution files from my computer to my Wiim devices all at high-resolution using the link function which also keeps them in sync. I do not want Chromecast or Google Cast or Roon Ready. I want a direct Wiim solution. It does not seem that the roadmap addresses that need. They had this on their roadmap a while ago but dropped it. The new roadmap statement does not seem to address that need. At least that is how I read it.

 

[Burnside]

I agree the description asks more questions than it answers.

 

[KrimsonAudio]

That’s showing the input signal. When I create a similar group and play a 24/192 track to a group, I can check by their connection to my amp that only 16/48 is being delivered to each, so no hi res multiroom as yet I’m afraid

That makes sense. If that's the case, then they made a change that I don't like. In the past, as I would add extra room the app would show me that the kbps was scaling down. I didn't screenshot that though, so I'm interested if anyone else had the same experience.

This is a core feature; they should address, clarify, and prioritize it in my opinion.

 

[Mr Ee]

I'm getting interesting results for wiim group multiroom playing from my nas.
With a pro as the only device, playing a 24/96 track the wiim app shows that and the dac reports 96khz.
Nothing unusual there...

Adding another wiim device, in this case a mini, causes the track to restart.
The wiim app still shows 24/96 but both dacs report 48khz.
These particular dacs don't show bit depth but I'd be pretty sure it's 16 bit.
Still as expected so far.

If I remove the mini from the group the music keeps playing at 48khz according to the dac. The track doesn't restart unlike when the group was created.
If I let it play to the next track then the dac still reports 48khz. (App still shows 96khz.)
But if I seek within the track or skip to another track then the dac reports 96khz.

Do this again, but the other way around. Start with just the mini and add the pro.
Mini only, 96khz on wiim app and dac, as expected.
Add pro, track restarts and both dacs report 48khz. As expected.
But the wiim app now shows 16/48, unlike when the pro was the leader.
Remove the pro, both the app and dac show 48khz.
Let the track move on to the next one, both the app and dac show 48khz.
Seek within the track and both app and dac show 48khz, unlike above where a seek caused it to go back to 96khz. Is it possible that all the track has already been cached this time and wasn't before?
Skip to the next track and both app and dac show 96khz.

If you read this far, well done.
This simple test was repeatable - with the mini as the lead the app showed the multiroom rate of 16/48, whereas with the pro as the lead the app showed the source 24/96 info.

I feel that the main thing 'wrong' here is that once devices are removed from the group the track and subsequent tracks keep on playing at the 16/48 rate until skipped (or maybe seeked).

The wiim app display inconsistency depending on which device is the leader is annoying, but what's correct?
For example, if I fix the pro's output to 24/44.1 or 24/192 what should the app show when in multiroom?
imo, showing the original track info is the right thing to do, so with the mini as the lead and the app changing to 16/48 in multiroom is 'wrong'.

As for the whole full 24/192 for all devices in a wiim group debate, well, imo if provided ths should be configurable.
I foresee potential issues with 6× the data being sent to multiple devices in a group and trying to keep them in sync and having no dropouts.
But hey, I may be proved wrong, and that'd be great.

 

[rubato]

What I've noticed, just from looking at network history from MinimServer running on a desktop, is that one WiiM device (presumably the controlling one in the group) reads and buffers the whole track. I would guess that the other devices also buffer, getting the data from the controlling device, so that while the track is playing they only need to exchange sync data -- but that's only a guess. Maybe the controlling device doles it out to the other devices as the track plays. In any case, even high resolution audio needs a lot less bandwidth than any kind of video. So from my point of view as an outsider, technically it doesn't seem that forbidding.

On the other hand, I can easily imagine this turning into a support nightmare for WiiM. The local network is the part of the system they have no control over.

 

[Mr Ee]

I would guess that the other devices also buffer, getting the data from the controlling device

I'd assume that too, but also that the other devices are being sent 16/48 data, i.e. the leader is resampling (as can be seen on its connected dac) and is distributing that resampled data. So how far in advance of using / sending that data is it being resampled?

I can easily imagine this turning into a support nightmare for WiiM

Agree!