Native DSD support via USB

[Devon]

I bought a Wiim Ultra for DSD files, unfortunately the files downloaded from the DLNA server are converted by Wiim Ultra to PCM 192/24. Is there any way to add full DSD support via USB output? Are there any hardware limitations of the Wiim Ultra or is it just a software issue?

 

[slartibartfast]

Not sure what you mean - both support DSD playback, see either the WiiM Uktra or WiiM Pro Plus firmware pages where you’ll see DSD support mentioned e.g. https://faq.wiimhome.com/en/support/solutions/articles/72000631650-wiim-ultra-firmware-release-notes

They do transcode it to PCM though.

 

[Burnside]

They do transcode it to PCM though.

Or process them in the DAC and output analog?

 

[slartibartfast]

Or process them in the DAC and output analog?

I think they still convert to PCM first or volume control wouldn't work.

 

[dtc]

Not sure what you mean - both support DSD playback, see either the WiiM Uktra or WiiM Pro Plus firmware pages where you’ll see DSD support mentioned e.g. https://faq.wiimhome.com/en/support/solutions/articles/72000631650-wiim-ultra-firmware-release-notes

That converts the DSD to PCM. The idea is to have DSD played as DSD. The DAC chips support that but Wiim has not implemented it.

 

[Mike in NY]

Not sure what you mean - both support DSD playback, see either the WiiM Uktra or WiiM Pro Plus firmware pages where you’ll see DSD support mentioned e.g. https://faq.wiimhome.com/en/support/solutions/articles/72000631650-wiim-ultra-firmware-release-notes

What's I mean is all playback is via transcoding to PCM, not native DSD, despite the DAC chipsets used in the Pro Plus and Ultra being capable of native DSD:

Playing DSD Audio Files on WiiM Devices

All WiiM devices, except for the WiiM Mini, support DSD audio file playback. These devices convert DSD content into PCM data for playback, with a sample rate of up to 192kHz. Here are the ways you can play DSD audio files on WiiM devices: ...

faq.wiimhome.com

 

[reniro]

could it also be a license thing (cost) and the reason why its not implemented ?

 

[EddNog]

could it also be a license thing (cost) and the reason why its not implemented ?

DSD is not proprietary and does not require added licensing.

I’m fairly sure they want nothing to do with true DSD because DSP cannot be applied to DSD, including digital volume control. If you wanted to listen to native DSD safely, they’d have to add an analog volume control (since they wouldn’t enable native DSD solely for external DACs).

-Ed

 

[dtc]

DSD is not proprietary and does not require added licensing.

If you wanted to listen to native DSD safely, they’d have to add an analog volume control (since they wouldn’t enable native DSD solely for external DACs).

-Ed

Two issues here. Pass through and decoding.

The systems I am familiar with that pass DSD through without decoding do indeed pass the signal through with any volume change. The DAC and/or the preamp control the volume.

If the DAC decodes the DSD signal to analog, then the volume control can be either digital or analog. The point is that the DAC decoded the DSD without going to PCM.

 

[andreart]

Need this too. For this feature still using my mac and signalyst HQPlayer

 

[Claudius2k]

It is a software thing. The Wiim merely passes encapsulated DSD out through the USB port. Since you don't wan't it automatically converted to PCM, you must first preprocess the DSD data to make it appear like PCM data. The technique involves encapsulating the DSD into the DoP format which your external DAC must recognize. In order to convert it before entering the Wiim, you can use manual tools or there are plugins for a few popular NAS Server packages like Room, Minumserver or Lyrion server. If you install one of these on the NAS, you can turn the actual indexing and format conversion processes over to them for the heavy lifting. And yes, this will relegate your WiiM to a simple streamer, no DSP processing like volume control, EQ etc.

 

[Claudius2k]

I wonder why are people using DSD at all? It's and old and outdated format used by recording studios when storage was expensive.

It's a format that doesn't allow any manipulation at all, so no need to push it through a device that offers EQ, RC and of cause volume control.

The 'need' is to employ the WiiM as a simple streamer under $300 with a very useful display. All the 'manipulation' is done downstream on a more expensive outboard DAC where it has only gone through one D/A conversion.

 

[hgo58]

The 'need' is to employ the WiiM as a simple streamer under $300 with a very useful display. All the 'manipulation' is done downstream on a more expensive outboard DAC where it has only gone through one D/A conversion.

There is always only one D/A conversation. And more expensive don't mean better.

 

[Deleted member 29741]

....And more expensive don't mean better.

Sometimes it does. Like it or not.

 

[slartibartfast]

Sometimes it does. Like it or not.

Sometimes it makes you think it must be better

 

[Deleted member 29741]

Sometimes it makes you think it must be better

Naa...not again

 

[EddNog]

There is always only one D/A conversation. And more expensive don't mean better.

Not in mine. 100% digital completely through; my power amp is a direct PCM to PWM class-D power amp with global feedback for load-independent frequency response (unlike antiquated digital amp designs like Peachtree GAN-1 or VTV’s GAN amp that’s actually the same module and is a zero feedback design, so depending on speaker impedance might roll off or exaggerate high frequencies).

-Ed

 

[hgo58]

Not in mine. 100% digital completely through; my power amp is a direct PCM to PWM class-D power amp with global feedback for load-independent frequency response (unlike antiquated digital amp designs like Peachtree GAN-1 or VTV’s GAN amp that’s actually the same module and is a zero feedback design, so depending on speaker impedance might roll off or exaggerate high frequencies).

-Ed

So one D/A conversion. PCM to analog power output. I have the same in my active speakers.

I don't know why @Claudius2k think the WiiM would do conversions when applying EQ and volume control?

DSD is just a format that doesn't allow any manipulation, so that needs to be done either in the analog domain or by converting it to e.g. PCM first.

 

[EddNog]

So one D/A conversion. PCM to analog power output. I have the same in my active speakers.

I don't know why @Claudius2k think the WiiM would do conversions when applying EQ and volume control?

DSD is just a format that doesn't allow any manipulation, so that needs to be done either in the analog domain or by converting it to e.g. PCM first.

I know it's off topic, but curious what speakers you have.

All the active speakers I've seen simply have a DAC inside of them.

-Ed

 

[Mr Ee]

DSD is just a format that doesn't allow any manipulation

Well, technically, digital volume cotrol can be applied to dsd depending on chip features and implementation.
But I get the point!

 

[dtc]

Well, technically, digital volume cotrol can be applied to dsd depending on chip features and implementation.
But I get the point!

I believe volume control can only be done on the analog output of the D to A chip. Volume control cannot be applied to the digital data directly. At least that is what I understand. What chip(s) do you think does volume control on the digital data?