Room Correction Beta firmware for WiiM Pro, Pro Plus and Amp - User Testing Experience

[eByGum]

I said I'd report back when iPad mic swapped out so here's some comments.
I tried getting my Behringer ECM8000 to work on the iPad but soon ran into the concept of phantom power. Tried an adapter to inject power with the USB-A connector but that didn't work. Only option was to buy an audio interface or phantom power injector. 50+ bucks I don't want to spend. Decided to get the Dayton Audio iMM-6 with TRRS connector designed for iPad. Comes with calibration file but no way to introduce that in RC (maybe a feature that should be added). The resultant tests I would say are worse. I tried having no sub, sub at 50hz and sub at 200 hz...charts below. I'm beaten, don't know how to make this work. Makes me think WiiM may be in for a significant support issue considering all the crappy/uncalibrated mics out there and likelihood of issues like this cropping up. Looking forward to next beta version to see if anything changes.

 

[Wiimer]

I said I'd report back when iPad mic swapped out so here's some comments.
I tried getting my Behringer ECM8000 to work on the iPad but soon ran into the concept of phantom power. Tried an adapter to inject power with the USB-A connector but that didn't work. Only option was to buy an audio interface or phantom power injector. 50+ bucks I don't want to spend. Decided to get the Dayton Audio iMM-6 with TRRS connector designed for iPad. Comes with calibration file but no way to introduce that in RC (maybe a feature that should be added). The resultant tests I would say are worse. I tried having no sub, sub at 50hz and sub at 200 hz...charts below. I'm beaten, don't know how to make this work. Makes me think WiiM may be in for a significant support issue considering all the crappy/uncalibrated mics out there and likelihood of issues like this cropping up. Looking forward to next beta version to see if anything changes.
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Have you verified that the iMM-6 is picking up sound?
@Brantome says that the iMM-6 didn't work with the WiiM app.

 

[eByGum]

Have you verified that the iMM-6 is picking up sound?
@Brantome says that the iMM-6 didn't work with the WiiM app.

I used an SPL meter app to check it was working and it seemed fine. I think Brantome has the usb-c one, mine was headphone socket. I tapped it a bunch of time with SPL meter on and it seemed to respond as expected.
I'll wait for the next beta version to check more stuff out.
Cheers.

 

[Steve Woodhouse]

I’d just repeat what I’ve noted earlier, that is picking up these lower frequencies for others, so it’s not that the standard of the iPhone mic isn’t good enough. This use of another mic getting the same results, and the fact that thousands use an iPhone mic for HouseCurve support that.

I think I’ve asked this (apologies if I haven’t), and can’t remember an answer (apologies if I’ve missed it), but what’s your kit?

I’m thinking…not very joined up…something something something…are you using the Amp and when you run RC it’s shutting off the sub out, or only measures the mains and ignores the sub somehow? Something.

EDIT: I see you’ve posted this elsewhere:

You have up to -15db of adjustment in the WiiM app subwoofer section. For me that almost turns off bass. Have you played with that one? EQ also allows -12db. In SVS app I generally leave gain at -10db which is default. Maybe post a few screenshots to show values?

Have you accident left the sub turned down in one of the apps?

 

[Brantome]

I used an SPL meter app to check it was working and it seemed fine. I think Brantome has the usb-c one, mine was headphone socket. I tapped it a bunch of time with SPL meter on and it seemed to respond as expected.
I'll wait for the next beta version to check more stuff out.
Cheers.

No, I have the headphone one but as I didn’t see anything in the app to allow me to use an external mic and load its calibration data, I presumed it didn’t support that. I’ll give it a try later

 

[canard]

the new version of the small dayton usb (which I pointed out a little above), with its integrated ADC*, if the rc mode of the wiim took care of the calibration, would be the elegant solution for this modest and integrated approach for the general public..

it's simple...
the more microphones used and the protocol is modest...the more calibration is essential to compensate...

(* the “microphone+adc” calibration is interesting)

 

[WiiM Team]

By the time these chats are over, will Android beta testing begin?

@WiiM Support,
Will the Android beta be after the public RC update for IOS? Or is it completely unpredictable?

We're discussing the Android beta of Room Correction and how to implement it. The challenge is that the phone's microphone quality affects Room Correction performance.

 

[Deleted member 4268]

We're discussing the Android beta of Room Correction and how to implement it. The challenge is that the phone's microphone quality affects Room Correction performance.

For curiosity only. Are differences known between the mics in iPhones and iPads?

 

[wiimj]

We're discussing the Android beta of Room Correction and how to implement it. The challenge is that the phone's microphone quality affects Room Correction performance.

Please just sell a phone attachable usb c mic. I will gladly buy! Or, just manual 10 bands peq so that we can REW on our own.

 

[canard]

rew is not enough... you need a calibrated usb type umik microphone or a sound card and a calibrated microphone etc.... (and handling rew etc)....

 

[Deleted member 4268]

My growing impression is that some users thought all this RC is done at the press of a button and get reasonable improvement. This is not trivial. Also definitively not for free.
I also predict some will open their own Pandora's box ;-)

 

[Steve Woodhouse]

Please remember, this is an area where measurements don’t tell the whole story.

When a system like this runs a test tone, it equally combines all the sounds the mic receives.

But your brain doesn’t.

Your brain always takes the first sound it hears, and gives that priority. It assumes that’s what the reflections are going to be too, and where they’re different they ‘nudge’ the brain slightly in that direction.

The thing is, this is so very easy to demonstrate. Look at a speaker like the Wharfedale Diamond 12.1. It has a very flat estimated in-room response, almost ruler flat 100Hz-12kHz, but with a dip of c.3dB at 2kHz-3kHz. You’ll hear that dip in the hi-fi shop. You’ll hear it in your lounge. You’ll hear it in your bedroom. You’ll hear it if you take them to your mate’s house. You’ll hear it in a treated room. You’ll hear it in an untreated room.

Now, look at some of the room measurements shared here, or anywhere else. Wild swings, far higher than the Diamonds’ dip, and far wider. Indeed, if you look at the post-correction estimates, the swings are still higher and wider.

Logically, in any non-anechoic room, that dip should disappear - a needle in a haystack. But it doesn’t.

If your room, if indeed every room, actually sounded like those results, no one would ever have spent over £100 on a pair of speakers, as it’d have been a complete waste of time.

 

[Steve Woodhouse]

For clarity, here’s the Wharfedale.

 

[Steve Woodhouse]

Here’s CC Rider’s room measurements (grey line).

 

[Steve Woodhouse]

The dip in the Wharfedales is c.3dB-4db. There are at least seven peaks and dips in CC’s room which are 5dB or greater, and another 3 roughly the same as the one in the Diamonds.

If what we heard was as bad as those room measurements suggest, and they’re not atypical, then hi fi speaker accuracy looks futile.

Let’s face it, hi fi in the ‘60s to the early ‘00s had no real domestic room measurement and correction application for the vast majority of users. Are we really supposed to believe that what we were all hearing all that time was really that bad?

 

[Brantome]

The dip in the Wharfedales is c.3dB-4db. There are at least seven peaks and dips in CC’s room which are 5dB or greater, and another 3 roughly the same as the one in the Diamonds.

If what we heard was as bad as those room measurements suggest, and they’re not atypical, then hi fi speaker accuracy looks futile.

Let’s face it, hi fi in the ‘60s to the early ‘00s had no real domestic room measurement and correction application for the vast majority of users. Are we really supposed to believe that what we were all hearing all that time was really that bad?

I can remember a few of my Yamaha receivers from a good while ago having their YPAO mics - might still have one in a drawer somewhere…

 

[Smartplug]

I can remember a few of my Yamaha receivers from a good while ago having their YPAO mics - might still have one in a drawer somewhere…

If we can utilize ypao mic that would be great I have one.

 

[Smartplug]

I did run couple room correction one was facing the iPhone mic in ceiling much like how AVR was using and it was no good. Second, facing it on you much like how you use your iPhone and this one sound great except the sub where there was big boost on sub. I will try facing the iPhone mic between the two speaker later on a day and see if this better or not.

 

[harkpabst]

If what we heard was as bad as those room measurements suggest, and they’re not atypical, then hi fi speaker accuracy looks futile.

These measurements - by definition - describe steady state behaviour and do not differentiate between the sources of sound pressure, indeed (direct sound, early reflections, standing waves, whatever). Technically the results are perfectly valid, though. There's nothing wrong in these measurements, in-room frequency response is nothing but a bloody mess.

But still, as.you said, different loudspeaker still sound differently to us, keeping large parts of their sonic character even in different listening environments. One way to look at this is to accept that our hearing is well capable of performing quite some "room correction" on its own. Our brain knows the room we're in and can cope with that to some degree without no additional technical measures.

Consequently, the task is not to equalize anything ruler flat. It is also not to strictly follow some other target curve (even if the results can be better than with the flat approach). The real question is what kind of error must be reduced to make the illusion presented by our stereo equipment more realistic and more pleasing. Not a solimple thing, for sure.

Unfortunately (or maybe not so) the same consequences apply to room treatment as well.

In defense of Floyd Toole: He never advertised to just EQ the response in one sweet spot according to "his" one and only correct target curve. This is oversimplification added by others later on.

 

[Wiimer]

This came down to the WiiM amp.