RoomFit Moving Mic Measurement (beta) - improvements

[slartibartfast]

First of all happy new year! You been doing a lot of measurements and any particular one that you find to be superior over the other?

Happy new year. I think you have missed the point of this post

 

[dominikz]

I repeated the measurement many times ways with the same result. Previous REW measurements have always agreed with the WiiM results.

Hm, that is really strange.
In my tests the responses when evaluating with both RoomFit and REW seem to match really well:


Note that I've aligned the color scheme in REW to make the comparison easier.
Horizontal scale cannot be matched unfortunately, because RoomFit uses a strange combination of linear scale up to 100Hz, and the usual log-scale above that. REW uses either linear or log scale, but we can't combine both.
That makes visual comparisons between the two tools challenging :/

EDIT: I've manually spliced REW linear scale 20-100Hz and log scale 100-20kHz of the same measurement in MS Paint, just so that the similarity between RoomFit and REW measured responses is easier to see:
Note that RoomFit scale from 20-100Hz is not 100% linear (e.g. see how 50Hz line is not aligned in the two plots) so this is again not a perfect match - but hopefully illustrates the point!

 

[dominikz]

As expected, there's not much difference if similar configuration is used in both REW and RoomFit:
View attachment 31792

Here's another example of how RoomFit MMM correction (20Hz to 300Hz correction range, 1/12 smoothing, B&K target, no-boost mode) compares to a correction created in REW with MMM (20Hz to 400Hz correction range, variable smoothing, -0,6dB/oct target slope, positive gain filters not allowed):

RoomFit corrected responses are depicted with solid lines, and REW corrected responses are in dotted lines. I've spaced the L, R and L+R responses vertically to make visual comparison easier.

As we can see, the result is almost identical, even with the small differences in configuration between the two tools. This is fully expected, and IMHO demonstrates that a good bass response can be achieved with either tool.

 

[canard]

It might be interesting now to observe, over time, if you prefer one of the two.
;-)

 

[dominikz]

It might be interesting now to observe, over time, if you prefer one of the two.
;-)

These are so similar that it is IMHO pointless to talk about preference. Either are good enough, and audible diferences will be tiny (if any at all).

This is an opinion formed after very extensive blind and level-matched listening comparisons of various room corrections which I've done in the past. Here's just one example.

 

[canard]

These are so similar that it is IMHO pointless to talk about preference. Either are good enough, and audible diferences will be tiny (if any at all).

This is an opinion formed after very extensive blind and level-matched listening comparisons of various room corrections which I've done in the past. Here's just one example.

I won't go into those topics... just that if the two are slightly different... perhaps you prefer one of them.
I wouldn't forbid it.
;-)

 

[dominikz]

I won't go into those topics... just that if the two are slightly different... perhaps you prefer one of them.
I wouldn't forbid it.
;-)

Well I'm not forbidding anything, I'm just not willing to spend more time listening for differences which experience tells me are meaningless. I'd rather be listening to music for enjoyment.

As I've said, I spent a good deal of time investigating this in the past and came out of that with conclusions I found satisfying, so I feel it is now better to spend energy elsewhere.

Others may feel differently, and that is fine as well!

 

[canard]

Well I'm not forbidding anything, I'm just not willing to spend more time listening for differences which experience tells me are meaningless. I'd rather be listening to music for enjoyment.

As I've said, I spent a good deal of time investigating this in the past and came out of that with conclusions I found satisfying, so I feel it is now better to spend energy elsewhere.

Others may feel differently, and that is fine as well!

But you still seem to be dedicating a lot of time to all of this, supporting Wiim for example, like this thread.. and also generously helping out... ;-)

 

[dominikz]

But you still seem to be dedicating a lot of time to all of this, supporting Wiim for example, like this thread.. and also generously helping out... ;-)

Exactly, because this is what I want to spend my energy on - sharing knowledge, helping other people, and helping WiiM improve their products.

 

[slartibartfast]

Hm, that is really strange.
In my tests the responses when evaluating with both RoomFit and REW seem to match really well:
View attachment 31841
View attachment 31840
Note that I've aligned the color scheme in REW to make the comparison easier.
Horizontal scale cannot be matched unfortunately, because RoomFit uses a strange combination of linear scale up to 100Hz, and the usual log-scale above that. REW uses either linear or log scale, but we can't combine both.
That makes visual comparisons between the two tools challenging :/

EDIT: I've manually spliced REW linear scale 20-100Hz and log scale 100-20kHz of the same measurement in MS Paint, just so that the similarity between RoomFit and REW measured responses is easier to see:View attachment 31843
Note that RoomFit scale from 20-100Hz is not 100% linear (e.g. see how 50Hz line is not aligned in the two plots) so this is again not a perfect match - but hopefully illustrates the point!

I haven't presented these as professionally as you but here are my results. Any thoughts?

 

[dominikz]

I haven't presented these as professionally as you but here are my results. Any thoughts?

View attachment 31847
View attachment 31848

That is definitely more different than it should be, so it makes me think there might be a mistake somewhere.

In REW did you also use MMM and measure both channels (L+R) together?
Did you use periodic pink noise at 48kHz sample rate?

Which input on the WiiM do you use to play periodic pink noise from REW, could it be there's some older EQ enabled on it (in addition to the RoomFit profile)?

 

[slartibartfast]

That is definitely more different than it should be, so it makes me think there might be a mistake somewhere.

In REW did you also use MMM and measure both channels (L+R) together?
Did you use periodic pink noise at 48kHz sample rate?

Which input on the WiiM do you use to play periodic pink noise from REW, could it be there's some older EQ enabled on it (in addition to the RoomFit profile)?

Yes mmm and both channels. I played the pink noise for REW from a file generated by REW via Lyrion.

 

[dominikz]

Yes mmm and both channels. I played the pink noise for REW from a file generated by REW via Lyrion.

Could it be there's some extra EQ enabled on WiiM or LMS side?

Does RoomFit evaluation match REW if you use an 'empty' RoomFit profile (i.e. all filter bands disabled)?

 

[slartibartfast]

Could it be there's some extra EQ enabled on WiiM or LMS side?

Does RoomFit evaluation match REW if you use an 'empty' RoomFit profile (i.e. all filter bands disabled)?

I'll do some more testing when I get a chance. No EQ from LMS though.

 

[slartibartfast]

Hm, that is really strange.
In my tests the responses when evaluating with both RoomFit and REW seem to match really well:
View attachment 31841
View attachment 31840
Note that I've aligned the color scheme in REW to make the comparison easier.
Horizontal scale cannot be matched unfortunately, because RoomFit uses a strange combination of linear scale up to 100Hz, and the usual log-scale above that. REW uses either linear or log scale, but we can't combine both.
That makes visual comparisons between the two tools challenging :/

EDIT: I've manually spliced REW linear scale 20-100Hz and log scale 100-20kHz of the same measurement in MS Paint, just so that the similarity between RoomFit and REW measured responses is easier to see:View attachment 31843
Note that RoomFit scale from 20-100Hz is not 100% linear (e.g. see how 50Hz line is not aligned in the two plots) so this is again not a perfect match - but hopefully illustrates the point!

If I do a stereo mmm then REW results look a lot closer to the WiiM evaluation. Very strange.

 

[slartibartfast]

Could it be there's some extra EQ enabled on WiiM or LMS side?

Does RoomFit evaluation match REW if you use an 'empty' RoomFit profile (i.e. all filter bands disabled)?

I decided to see what would happen if I calculated filters in REW then enter them manually into RoomFit. Previously the resulting response in REW has always looked as expected.
First the Left and Right raw responses from REW



Now the predicted corrected response from REW



Left and right predicted responses both look reasonably flat.
Now the measured left and right corrected response from REW




Is something broken regarding the individual channel RoomFit filters on the WiiM Amp. As I said earlier Stereo filters appear to be OK.

 

[slartibartfast]

Hm, that is really strange.
In my tests the responses when evaluating with both RoomFit and REW seem to match really well:
View attachment 31841
View attachment 31840
Note that I've aligned the color scheme in REW to make the comparison easier.
Horizontal scale cannot be matched unfortunately, because RoomFit uses a strange combination of linear scale up to 100Hz, and the usual log-scale above that. REW uses either linear or log scale, but we can't combine both.
That makes visual comparisons between the two tools challenging :/

EDIT: I've manually spliced REW linear scale 20-100Hz and log scale 100-20kHz of the same measurement in MS Paint, just so that the similarity between RoomFit and REW measured responses is easier to see:View attachment 31843
Note that RoomFit scale from 20-100Hz is not 100% linear (e.g. see how 50Hz line is not aligned in the two plots) so this is again not a perfect match - but hopefully illustrates the point!

Are these recent measurements results? I ask because I also used to see well matched results from REW and WiiM and manually entered filters from REW always produced the expected results. Now they don't and I have no idea why. I remember WiiM changed the algorithm quite a while ago and that caused a change in response from existing filters. I wonder if something similar has happened again. I definitely have old REW measurements showing filters producing the expected response matching the target curve but any recent tests are miles off the target.
I even tried copying the same filters from RoomFit to PEQ and measured exactly the same results.

 

[dominikz]

I decided to see what would happen if I calculated filters in REW then enter them manually into RoomFit. Previously the resulting response in REW has always looked as expected.
First the Left and Right raw responses from REW
View attachment 31903
View attachment 31904

Now the predicted corrected response from REW
View attachment 31905
View attachment 31906

Left and right predicted responses both look reasonably flat.
Now the measured left and right corrected response from REW

View attachment 31907
View attachment 31909

Is something broken regarding the individual channel RoomFit filters on the WiiM Amp. As I said earlier Stereo filters appear to be OK.

That is really strange, I must admit I haven't had such issues, at least not so far.

You manually entered REW PEQ values to a previously created Individual Channel RoomFit profile, right?
Did you try to use the RoomFit evaluate function with it to compare?

Perhaps it might be worth opening a support ticket.

 

[slartibartfast]

That is really strange, I must admit I haven't had such issues, at least not so far.

You manually entered REW PEQ values to a previously created Individual Channel RoomFit profile, right?
Did you try to use the RoomFit evaluate function with it to compare?

Perhaps it might be worth opening a support ticket.

After seeing the results I didn't bother with the WiiM evaluation since the shape of the response was so close to the response when using RoomFit. I found an old forum post showing a flat response so I know it used to work

S

Post in thread 'L/R channel Room Correction with subwoofer using REW'

Jun 6, 2025

I just tried this again but using unmodified B&K target curve for each speaker and as usual I see a dip in the final stereo result around 150Hz.
If I use stereo room correction then I don't get this dip so is independent channel room correction really a better method?

• slartibartfast

 

[dominikz]

Are these recent measurements results? I ask because I also used to see well matched results from REW and WiiM and manually entered filters from REW always produced the expected results. Now they don't and I have no idea why. I remember WiiM changed the algorithm quite a while ago and that caused a change in response from existing filters. I wonder if something similar has happened again. I definitely have old REW measurements showing filters producing the expected response matching the target curve but any recent tests are miles off the target.
I even tried copying the same filters from RoomFit to PEQ and measured exactly the same results.

These were recent, yes, taken on the day I posted them. So far I don't believe I had a case where the response deviated from expectation when I remeasured in REW.