Sound quality difference Plex vs. Amazon Unlimited through the Wiim

[CrystalGipsy]

The one on AM is likey a completely different master than the one you have on CD, likey a more recent remaster with different dynamic range, usually they are compressed to hell compared to older CD releases. This is common on every streaming services. You can’t compare the quality of the two inputs unless you know they are exactly the same version of an album using exactly the same mastering. Read up on the loudness wars and you will understand.

This is a good site to compare dynamic range of different releases.

Album list - Dynamic Range DB

 

[Houma]

Darum bin ich sehr vorsichtig eine Aussage zu machen, welcher DAC besser oder schlechter ist. Pro oder Pro+ zum Beispiel. Ich habe noch nirgendwo über einen direkten Hörvergleich gelesen. Jede Meinung über irgendeinen Sound kann nur subjektiv sein. Jeder hat einen anderen Eindruck was ihm gefällt oder nicht. Und eines ist klar. Alle Streamingdienste tricksen.

 

[FerengiROA]

The one on AM is likey a completely different master than the one you have on CD, likey a more recent remaster with different dynamic range, usually they are compressed to hell compared to older CD releases. This is common on every streaming services. You can’t compare the quality of the two inputs unless you know they are exactly the same version of an album using exactly the same mastering. Read up on the loudness wars and you will understand.

This is a good site to compare dynamic range of different releases.

Album list - Dynamic Range DB

Your explanation makes perfect sense. Explains the discrepancies that I'm hearing. Another reason I'm fortunate to have ripped my entire CD collection before I started to think out the bulk.

 

[CrystalGipsy]

Your explanation makes perfect sense. Explains the discrepancies that I'm hearing. Another reason I'm fortunate to have ripped my entire CD collection before I started to think out the bulk.

Main reason I’m on a large 2nd hand cd buying spree. Also fed up with music being removed.

 

[FerengiROA]

Main reason I’m on a large 2nd hand cd buying spree. Also fed up with music being removed.

Speaking of 2nd hand discs, do you buy from an online source, local, etc? Thinking of doing the same but concerned about damaged/unplayable CDs. Thanks for any leads.

 

[d6jg]

My 2p on this.
If you listen to a recently released album I find it makes almost no difference whether it’s via a streaming service or a CD. It’s the same master. Even a vinyl version sounds only marginally different in the way only vinyl does.
If however you listen to some very well known classic from yesteryear then a whole host of different factors apply to make it sound different depending on version, source etc

 

[Brantome]

in a similar vein… https://darko.audio/2023/08/when-hi-res-audio-cant-compete-with-vinyl/

 

[d6jg]

in a similar vein… https://darko.audio/2023/08/when-hi-res-audio-cant-compete-with-vinyl/

Just can’t make my mind up about Darko. Here he talks a lot of (mostly obvious) sense but in other circumstances it’s all subjective … stronger midranges, deeper bottoms nonsense.

 

[Smartplug]

I had all these major streaming services so I would rank them best first. This my subjective comment and everyone has different option and take. Qobuz, tidal, amazon.

 

[kevingc]

Dumb question: what is plex , in a nut shell?

 

[dssme]

I have been using the Wiim Pro for about 2 months now and I just noticed something that I was not expecting at all.

First, some data. I am using Amazon Unlimited after trials of the Big 3 Hi-Res services. I felt that I didn't hear enough of a consistent improvement, if any, between A, Q & T.

I am outputting Coax from the Wiim to a SMSL DAC/HP amp combo.

First, the good. The sound on most tracks is really clear and drums are nice and tight on good recordings. I'm doing most of my listening on headphones that I have had for around 6 years so I am very familiar with their sound signature.

But, lately, when I listen to songs that I am very familiar with, I had the sense that something was just different. I felt some of the liveliness or airiness was not as I had remembered it.

One example is ELP "From The Beginning", a song I loved for over 50 years and played countless times. The opening guitar just didn't have that clarity or pluck that I knew was there. The track is 24 bit/96khz. Plus, the noise/hiss is more than I remember.

I am using WiFi as my connection type and have fiber so speed or stability is not an issue. Excellent signal strength 24/7.

So, I played the same song from my Plex server through the Wiim Home Music Share; 16bit WAV file, and immediately noticed that the Plex WAV sounded better. It sounded how I always remembered it. The guitar had that luster back and the noise was also reduced. Tried a few other songs that I know very well and had very similar outcomes. What I can't understand, though, is why? Both ways are streamed on wifi, both are in either WAV or HiRes and equipment is the same. Only the stream is different.
This is not a subtle or inconclusive finding. I clearly hear the improvement using my Plex server. And, using an SPL, I volume matched almost identically, on my loudspeakers and headphones.

If anyone knows that song and can do a comparison, I would be curious as to what findings you come up with.

Don't get me wrong. I am not crapping on the Wiim. It's been rock solid since I got it but I felt something was just "off".

Any thoughts?

My guess is that the streaming services version was remastered and the Plex CD copy is just better
I've experienced this before on more music than I thought I could ever imagine
Every audio system is improved by better sources
And the most important source is the recorded master

 

[FerengiROA]

Dumb question: what is plex , in a nut shell?

Plex is a media server that can send your audio/video files that you have stored on a PC/Mac, etc to your A/V or HT setup. For example, all my WAV/FLAC files and Blu-Ray rips are stored on an external HD which gets "cast" to my Roku or similar device to play on my AV systems.

There are different media servers like Jellyfin, etc, that basically do the same thing.

 

[Guest1]

Or you might use Roon and RoonArc and all your files are with you all over the world

 

[Giulio]

I believe there isn't a real difference in playback quality. However, that doesn't mean that two streams must necessarily sound the same, because even starting from the same source, choices can be made (usually in terms of levels and equalization) that then alter the outcome, whether it's a FLAC file or a streaming stream.

As I mentioned in another post, I follow lossless radio stations closely, and each one has its own "personality" regarding the characteristics of the transmitted streams, both in terms of level and timbre. But the same can be said for any music service, unless it defines itself as "Bit Perfect," but as far as I know, none of them do.

 

[CrystalGipsy]

Speaking of 2nd hand discs, do you buy from an online source, local, etc? Thinking of doing the same but concerned about damaged/unplayable CDs. Thanks for any leads.

Im in UK and buy from charity shops can find amazing bargains here, I am lucky to have me two 2nd hand record/CDs shops close by, online retailers such as MusicMagpie, World of Books, and Discogs. I check all the ones I am buying physically from shops. Online give a condition of the disc. Not had any issues with them playing or being ripped. They are in various conditions but as long as it plays I don’t care about the box.

 

[CrystalGipsy]

I believe there isn't a real difference in playback quality. However, that doesn't mean that two streams must necessarily sound the same, because even starting from the same source, choices can be made (usually in terms of levels and equalization) that then alter the outcome, whether it's a FLAC file or a streaming stream.

As I mentioned in another post, I follow lossless radio stations closely, and each one has its own "personality" regarding the characteristics of the transmitted streams, both in terms of level and timbre. But the same can be said for any music service, unless it defines itself as "Bit Perfect," but as far as I know, none of them do.

This is because all services except Qobuz apply volume levelling to manage loudness to some extent and all follow a slightly different LUFs target to achieve it. All the lossless streams are bit perfect if not then Tidals MQA would not have worked. Internet radio depends on the encoder they are using and flavour codec and system used to broadcast.

 

[Giulio]

This is because all services except Qobuz apply volume levelling to manage loudness to some extent and all follow a slightly different LUFs target to achieve it. All the lossless streams are bit perfect if not then Tidals MQA would not have worked. Internet radio depends on the encoder they are using and flavour codec and system used to broadcast.

But this applies to all streaming services, not just radio.
Does Amazon Music claim to be "Bit Perfect"? Not at all, so there's no guarantee that the output stream is identical to the source.
In fact, it's quite unlikely to be true.

 

[CrystalGipsy]

But this applies to all streaming services, not just radio.
Does Amazon Music claim to be "Bit Perfect"? Not at all, so there's no guarantee that the output stream is identical to the source.
In fact, it's quite unlikely to be true.

You can’t prove it isn’t either but I would say it most likely is for most services. AM difficulty to say as they do uses a dynamic variable bitrate where the others do not as you have to choose your quality. And as I said Tidal is or MQA would not work if not bit perfect. When I stream from Qobuz the exact same release and master that I have bought from them. When comparing as closely as I can, it sounds exactly the same.

 

[Giulio]

You can’t prove it isn’t either but I would say it most likely is for most services. AM difficulty to say as they do uses a dynamic variable bitrate where the others do not as you have to choose your quality. And as I said Tidal is or MQA would not work if not bit perfect. When I stream from Qobuz the exact same release and master that I have bought from them. When comparing as closely as I can, it sounds exactly the same.

Of course, I can't "prove" it... Is this a process?
However, I can point out that Amazon Music Unlimited labels and documents every single feature of its streams, and among those, there is no reference to Bit Perfect.
If such a feature is not mentioned, we should assume it's at least likely not being adhered to.

 

[CrystalGipsy]

It’s advertised as lossless, are they lying then. All services advertise it as lossless not bitperfect which is a term adopted by the hifi side of things not from the providers.