Test WIIM pro+ with different power supplies

[canard]

a big erratum on my part...
if I pointed out in my use a fairly low consumption even with a "plus", it was just on a low resolution radio stream...but if in fact the consumption skyrockets with the resolution...
my point and the use of a simple 1A even with a "plus" becomes obsolete..
but above all invites a big precaution that I have not read it seems to me...


it is during the "subjective" tests, to clearly specify the type of resolution, see to heavily demand, at maximum, the power supply, as a precaution, only use music files that are at high resolution.....
"stress test"


sorry



;-)

 

[Wiimer]

a big erratum on my part...
if I pointed out in my use a fairly low consumption even with a "plus", it was just on a low resolution radio stream...but if in fact the consumption skyrockets with the resolution...
my point and the use of a simple 1A even with a "plus" becomes obsolete..
but above all invites a big precaution that I have not read it seems to me...


it is during the "subjective" tests, to clearly specify the type of resolution, see to heavily demand, at maximum, the power supply, as a precaution, only use music files that are at high resolution.....
"stress test"


sorry



;-)

I measured it.
Even playing 24/192 on Amazon music was up to 2W. It is a simple measurement.

 

[adias]

a big erratum on my part...
if I pointed out in my use a fairly low consumption even with a "plus", it was just on a low resolution radio stream...but if in fact the consumption skyrockets with the resolution...
my point and the use of a simple 1A even with a "plus" becomes obsolete..
but above all invites a big precaution that I have not read it seems to me...


it is during the "subjective" tests, to clearly specify the type of resolution, see to heavily demand, at maximum, the power supply, as a precaution, only use music files that are at high resolution.....
"stress test"


sorry



;-)

I suspect it will not be that much different.

 

[canard]

I have no principle.. ;-)
if the conditions change.. just have to be understood in the tests.. and there in the power supply tests.. whether it is objective, or subjective...

 

[adias]

I am running an Apple 5V/1A supply which runs very cool.

 

[adias]

I measured it.
Even playing 24/192 on Amazon music was up to 2W. It is a simple measurement.

View attachment 5203

View attachment 5204

That’s 40% of the power capacity 5W of an Apple 5V/1A supply.

 

[canard]

pro or plus?
me too with plus, a 1A in analogic..but i just use with radio in not heavy resolution...
and it will perhaps depend on seeing the temperature pass in HD if there were to be a warm-up... in any case deserves some precautions with the "plus" during the tests..and to dig into this subject

 

[adias]

pro or plus?
me too with plus, a 1A..but i just use with radio and not heavy resolution...

Pro.

 

[canard]

Pro.

ahhh.. not "plus"... normal

 

[whodiini]

Jumping into this thread after reading most of this and associated threads.

I have a Wiim Pro plus and wanted a reasonably priced decent power supply better than the stock switching supply. First, after reading some measurements of switching supplies, I powered it with a true Apple ipad 12W supply that came with my ipad. Apple makes good engineered equipment and their power supplies are also well designed, even though it is a switching supply. I would not buy it anywhere separately except in an Apple store due to all the fakes everywhere. If you can find it for cheap, it is probably fake. I have purchased products like lightning cables sold as genuine and the boxes, the cables looked identical to genuine Apple until I took them apart. But that's a digression. The point is that a genuine Apple ipad supply is a reasonable priced switching supply. It sounded decent.

Next I wanted a linear power supply. I did the usual, looked at Amazon, Aliexpress and reputable hifi suppliers and couldnt stomach the price which was close to or exceeded the cost of what I paid for the Wiim pro plus. So I decided to think about where I could get a 5V 1.5A linear regulated power supply for a reasonably price. I started looking at wall warts, but most were 1A or less. There are a few linear regulated wall warts on ebay but they are hard to identify as they are typically 20 years old and the sellers dont know what they have and dont title them appropriately but by an obscure part number. If you are willing to do the research and spent the time, you can find one for $20-$25. However, its a crap shoot as they are often old and the parts are not as good as modern day ones. What I did was buy some wall warts that were transformer based for around $15 and unregulated and then spend about $10 in parts to install a regulator and replace the old capacitor. The result should be as good or better than the cheaper ones on Amazon and Aliexpress that go for $50-$80. Plus they are 2A maximum, so they should meet the 1.5A spec. I posted my research at

convert wall wart to regulated power supply

I have a 5V 2A class 2 wall wart. I carefully opened it up and there is a transformer followed by a full wave bridge and then 2 5600 microfarad 10V caps in parallel. All on a small PC board. I would like to convert it to a regulated power supply. It seems all I need to do is remove the 2...

www.diyaudio.com

I dont have access to a scope or AP analyzer so I cant post specs, but based on the parts specs, it should be as good as many of these linear power supplies. The downside of transformers is that they induce magnetic noise and hum, so a wall wart is a good solution as it puts it several feet away from the Wiim. I used this in my office system and maybe it sounds a little better. (I use it only as a streamer and use the coax out into a Loxjie A30, powering my triangle Borea 2.) I may try it in my main system and compare it to my much more expensive Eversolo DMP-A6 streamer that the Serbian guy on youtube says is equivalent in sound.

One caveat that I havent yet identified - the power input to the Wiim Pro Plus is USB C. I do not know if the Wiim Pro Plus USB C connection negotiates the power. The USB C protocols are extremely extremely complex. The default is 5V .5A if there is simply 5V provided. For 5V 1.5A, one needs to provide an appropriate signal thru the USB C connection that 1.5A is available. I have a USB C power meter coming that I will test whether the Wiim Pro Plus needs this to pull 1.5A. I read that some people have measured the current the Wiim Pro Plus pulls from USB C they did not say whether they provided the signals that more than .5A was available. If the Wiim defaults to 5V .5A as the supply capability, then it would not pull more than 2.5W power because it understands that the supply cannot provide more! I will test it under both protocols and see if it makes a difference.

 

[whodiini]

One issue I could not find any info online was whether the USB C power input negotiated with the power supply the capability of the supply. I was wondering why the Wiim Pro used USB C for power instead of a typical dumb barrel connector. So I did some tests. First I connected my Apple 12W USB A Ipad power supply. I put in series a USB C meter. It read 5V, Apple 2.4A available. I put a 100W SlimQ power supply with USB C connector and it read 5V, Apple 2.4A available. Since this supply is a PD supply, it clearly negotiated with the Wiim to supply 5V and the supply advertised 2.4A was available. Why would this be important? Because the default is 5V at .5A. If you connect a 5V 2A dumb linear supply to the Wiim, the Wiim should think it provides 5V @ .5A if it follows USB C protocols and limit the amount of current pulled from the dumb linear supply to .5A, not higher. i ran some tests and could not get the Wiim Pro Plus to draw more than about .6A. Someone said they got it to pull .9A. I then took a cable, and shorted the D+ and D- lines together so according to BC1.2 protocol, the source advertises that the supply is 5V 1.5A, not .5A. I connected my linear power supply with both cables and did an A/B and did not find a situation that was much different where the Wiim Pro Plus pulled more than about .6A. I ordered a different/better monitor board to see if the el cheapo USB C monitor I was using was the issue. When I connected the linear supply with the default connector, it read that it was a Samsung protocol and when I shorted the D+ and D-, it reported that it was a QC2.0. Thats why I suspect the monitor board, because it should read DCP protocol. Will update in a week.

 

[canard]

One issue I could not find any info online was whether the USB C power input negotiated with the power supply the capability of the supply. I was wondering why the Wiim Pro used USB C for power instead of a typical dumb barrel connector. So I did some tests. First I connected my Apple 12W USB A Ipad power supply. I put in series a USB C meter. It read 5V, Apple 2.4A available. I put a 100W SlimQ power supply with USB C connector and it read 5V, Apple 2.4A available. Since this supply is a PD supply, it clearly negotiated with the Wiim to supply 5V and the supply advertised 2.4A was available. Why would this be important? Because the default is 5V at .5A. If you connect a 5V 2A dumb linear supply to the Wiim, the Wiim should think it provides 5V @ .5A if it follows USB C protocols and limit the amount of current pulled from the dumb linear supply to .5A, not higher. i ran some tests and could not get the Wiim Pro Plus to draw more than about .6A. Someone said they got it to pull .9A. I then took a cable, and shorted the D+ and D- lines together so according to BC1.2 protocol, the source advertises that the supply is 5V 1.5A, not .5A. I connected my linear power supply with both cables and did an A/B and did not find a situation that was much different where the Wiim Pro Plus pulled more than about .6A. I ordered a different/better monitor board to see if the el cheapo USB C monitor I was using was the issue. When I connected the linear supply with the default connector, it read that it was a Samsung protocol and when I shorted the D+ and D-, it reported that it was a QC2.0. Thats why I suspect the monitor board, because it should read DCP protocol. Will update in a week.

I admit I don't understand it well...
but it seems interesting and calls for certain precautions... etc
(will agree with my observation of the cable provided by wiim with my plus, which prevents the normal fast charging of my phone?)

 

[whodiini]

I'll try to simplify. Many people are trying linear power supplies instead of the provided noisy switch mode power supply. But linear power supplies are dumb, whereas Wiim uses a USB C power connector. A USB C power connector negotiates with the power supply the voltage and current available. So if someone uses a dumb linear power supply, it may not be communicating its capability to the Wiim to provide more than .5A current and may degrade the performance of the Wiim instead of improving it. That is what I am trying to ascertain. Halfway thru this, only conclusion so far is that the Wiim does negotiate voltage levels with the power supply. I am trying to find out if the Wiim also negociates the current level as well and uses that information to limit the current used.

You do bring up a point I neglected. I tested the included charger with the Wiim but I did not test the charger with the included cable.

 

[BowsAndArrows]

I'll try to simplify. Many people are trying linear power supplies instead of the provided noisy switch mode power supply. But linear power supplies are dumb, whereas Wiim uses a USB C power connector. A USB C power connector negotiates with the power supply the voltage and current available. So if someone uses a dumb linear power supply, it may not be communicating its capability to the Wiim to provide more than .5A current and may degrade the performance of the Wiim instead of improving it. That is what I am trying to ascertain. Halfway thru this, only conclusion so far is that the Wiim does negotiate voltage levels with the power supply. I am trying to find out if the Wiim also negociates the current level as well and uses that information to limit the current used.

Well I should receive my topping p50 tomorrow and so I'll be testing this. The p50 has 2x 5V/1A usb ports, and I intend to use both at the same time.
Those power draw numbers you mentioned for the WiiM sound right, so even though the team officially recommends a PS rated at 5V/1.5A minimum, I think it will be ok.

Max 0.9A draw from the WiiM Pro is manageable for the p50 imo. Guess I'll fond out if there are any performance issues!!

 

[canard]

I'll try to simplify. Many people are trying linear power supplies instead of the provided noisy switch mode power supply. But linear power supplies are dumb, whereas Wiim uses a USB C power connector. A USB C power connector negotiates with the power supply the voltage and current available. So if someone uses a dumb linear power supply, it may not be communicating its capability to the Wiim to provide more than .5A current and may degrade the performance of the Wiim instead of improving it. That is what I am trying to ascertain. Halfway thru this, only conclusion so far is that the Wiim does negotiate voltage levels with the power supply. I am trying to find out if the Wiim also negociates the current level as well and uses that information to limit the current used.

You do bring up a point I neglected. I tested the included charger with the Wiim but I did not test the charger with the included cable.

thank you ;-)
(my modest "a 0.6a" tests were only in aac radio mode not 192k24... after upgrade , what are the overconsumption situations observed?)

 

[onlyoneme]

You do bring up a point I neglected. I tested the included charger with the Wiim but I did not test the charger with the included cable.

Included cable doesn't allow any negotiation, it has probably both D+/- unwired. So it will be dumb.
I don't think that the Pro relies on the charger capabilities.

 

[onlyoneme]

The most common scenario which I've seen when using dumb LPS or SMPS chargers, was identifying itself as DCP1.5A when a correct usb cable (or barrel to usb adaptor) is used.

 

[onlyoneme]

Since this supply is a PD supply, it clearly negotiated with the Wiim to supply 5V and the supply advertised 2.4A was available. Why would this be important? Because the default is 5V at .5A.

Default current of 0.5A is for SDP and computer usb ports. In case of the chargers it will be rather DCP and 1.5A when possible, for backward compatibility without any negotiation.

 

[whodiini]

Default current of 0.5A is for SDP and computer usb ports. In case of the chargers it will be rather DCP and 1.5A when possible, for backward compatibility without any negotiation.

Can you point me to documentation that states that? So far all the documentation I have read about USB C protocols with D+ and D- unwired state that 5V .5A is default.

 

[onlyoneme]

Can you point me to documentation that states that? So far all the documentation I have read about USB C protocols with D+ and D- unwired state that 5V .5A is default.

I didn't say that this is for unwired D pins. It's for shorted ones just like it is for the stock PSU, common chargers and barrel to USB adapters.