About properly performed unsighted tests? It's so rare that I do not recognize the last time I've read about it.
Test WIIM pro+ with different power supplies
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steadyshot
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Funny thing very few if any such test is documented on the net!
BowsAndArrows
Senior Member
Hi @onlyoneme just as a matter of interest, and not trying to be funny, what is the level/bar/measurement a dac needs to hit to be regarded as audibly transparent.
It's arguable especially when talking about being audibly transparent in general. A bit easier for particular tests but rather in terms of prediction whether the result suggests audibility or not, than setting exact audibility thresholds.
OK, think I get what you are saying. Is it like taking a 'helicopter' view of a series of test results and from your experience testing knowing roughly what this would translate to in terms of performance in your own system?
BowsAndArrows
Senior Member
in my opinion the tests can only tell you so much about how a component will sound and usually will only point to glaring abnormalities (if any exist)... a combination of testing and experience actually listening to a product is necessary to ascertain its performance because unfortunately we cannot measure everything that matters to SQ. 
for example frequency response curves have many limitations, similarly SINAD measurements or equivalents are also typically not very informative. it's because we don't listen to test tones in practice.. (at least i don't!
) and also because these routine measurements contain very little information about the accuracy of your system's sound reproduction capabilities in the time domain - which is hugely important for creating realistic imaging, wide soundstage etc.
for example frequency response curves have many limitations, similarly SINAD measurements or equivalents are also typically not very informative. it's because we don't listen to test tones in practice.. (at least i don't!
) and also because these routine measurements contain very little information about the accuracy of your system's sound reproduction capabilities in the time domain - which is hugely important for creating realistic imaging, wide soundstage etc.
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Like what, for example?
They are informative and specialized, but if you mean that they do not make a coffee, then I will agree - they don't.
It's not their purpose. They are made to let evaluate device performance under some circumstances.
A jitter can be analyzed in both time domain and frequency domain when needed.
BowsAndArrows
Senior Member
@onlyoneme well, to be specific: we don't have reliable measurements to apply to things like- macro/microdynamics, soundstage, realism in imaging, "weight" of a sound (the feeling of it being a live performance).
but it's not only that but also how we apply the measurements we do have at our disposal - e.g. it is possible to test off-axis performance of a setup - but this is not done routinely because it is cumbersome. This can much more easily be discerned by listening to the system for a few minutes... i.e. there are inherent limitations to all approaches.
there are obviously limitations to evaluating our subjective experiences too, but people seem to grasp those more easily, hence we don't feel the need to keep repeating them.
in my opinion we have to accept that there are limitations to our understanding of how the auditory system works too, and also trust that there are times when "taking a listen" just makes more sense
if you disagree and think it's an open-and-shut case and amir at ASR knows everything there is to know about hearing, then that's cool too i guess 
BowsAndArrows
Senior Member
at the ènd of the day - some components sound different to us. and all we're trying to do here is understand why that is a bit better...
some of us believe that this kind of knowledge should be in the public domain instead of protected by proprietary research at the big audio companies (who admittedly do make products that are better performing than others)...
some of us believe that this kind of knowledge should be in the public domain instead of protected by proprietary research at the big audio companies (who admittedly do make products that are better performing than others)...
BowsAndArrows
Senior Member
that's a fair point! i can see your line of reasoning and i agree... i wish it were that simple.
but the issue is - we sometimes can't even agree on the "what" because at this current point in time we are unable to apply an objective lens over all of the (replicable) subjective differences we observe...
All these things are part of the perceived sound quality, an impression built by the brain. None of it is a factor which defines the ability of the device to reproduce the content faithfully, the objective metric of sound quality.
Measurements focus on factors which influence parts mentioned by you.
D1N0
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You are assuming measurements are perfect and that anything that cannot be measured is imagined. That is a gross overestimation of the measurement ability we have.
Ian
Member
Sorry. I missed this post.
I'm fairly confident that the Wiim uses a switching regulator to reduce the 5v from the USB input to a more usual 3v3. It's extremely unlikely that any digital device in any Wiim device operates at 5v.
It's conceivable that an audio board has an entirely separate power regime.
Without a schematic it's impossible to say with certainty,
ZoydWheeler
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I've just wasted a good hour going back and reading this entire thread. And I'm still none the wiser. Do I need to buy a better power supply for my WiiM Pro Plus, use an old Apple USB power supply, or just crack on with the power supply that was in the box? Which sounds fine so far, to my ears.
Rudivanb
Member
That also depends on the resolution of your system and your taste. With my modest DAC / Headphone Amp driving my headphones I found the WIim Pro powered by a linear power supply from Audiophonics gave a more pleasant and more natural sound. I did not have the possibility to listen first before buying the LPS, luckily it did turn out to be a worthwhile improvement in my situation.
ZoydWheeler
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Interesting - how much do these things cost?
If the WiiM Pro Plus required a better power supply, WiiM would have provided it in the box, or available for purchase. It's simple as that.
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