WiiM Amp Pro

[Steve Woodhouse]

Wiim reveals Ultra streamer pricing and unleashes the Amp Pro

Wiim's new Ultra network music streamer music player gets a price and detailed specs, and so does the new Pro version of the Wiim Amp.

www.digitaltrends.com

”Wiim also promised that it would reveal another new device, and it turns out to be the Wiim Amp Pro, a beefed-up version of the highly rated Wiim Amp that launched earlier this year. It will sell for $369 when it arrives on Amazon around the same time as the Ultra.”

Have we heard anything different to that?

 

[Brantome]

Have we heard anything different to that?

We haven’t heard anything from WiiM re timescales that I recall

 

[slartibartfast]

Is that an assumption or fact?

Would you buy the old one now when the new one has been announced for this year? So assumption

 

[Brantome]

Is that an assumption or fact?

I wonder if they’ll rationalise their product line, maybe by tweaking the prices a bit to have just the Mini, the Pro Plus, the Ultra and the Amp Pro, maybe quietly retiring the Pro and the Amp, and even maybe a slightly upgraded mini mk2 to replace the current mini? There’s perhaps a danger there’ll be too many models with not enough differentiation.

 

[slartibartfast]

I wonder if they’ll rationalise their product line, maybe by tweaking the prices a bit to have just the Mini, the Pro Plus, the Ultra and the Amp Pro, maybe quietly retiring the Pro and the Amp, and even maybe a slightly upgraded mini mk2 to replace the current mini? There’s perhaps a danger there’ll be too many models with not enough differentiation.

As long as they keep supporting the original amp with firmware updates that would make sense.

 

[harkpabst]

I don’t think there’s any doubt that there’ll be some people who were thinking of buying the amp, but who like the look of the Amp Pro better, and are prepared to wait.

That would be those who missed that the Amp Pro looks exactly the same as the Amp, right? At least as far as the prototypes on display (has there been more than one?) are concerned.

As long as they keep supporting the original amp with firmware updates that would make sense.

For WiiM it might make sense, no matter if or how they continue to support the WiiM Amp. So far we have nothing but a relatively vague announcement. Even taking the replacement of the Amp as a fact, how many potential buyers will have taken notice, so far?

 

[BowsAndArrows]

From what I've read, and I've scoured for info
The amp has the same Dac etc as the ultra but is missing the display,id pay £30 more for the amp without the display and that really will be the bargain, I've only set my plus up yesterday and am well impressed, hoping it gets better after a week or so, but money well spent so , also after one company tried selling me a bargain ifi ipower 2 for £67 i bought one new on eBay £40 , only 2 left so be quick

Link to the eBay listing? Thanks

 

[phunny12000]

Checked straight away and all gone very quickly from a reputable seller,mines on its way, sorry

 

[Jls]

Hence “perfect” in quotes.

We will, of course, wait for the measurements.

But what makes me laugh is the number of people trying to big up the issues, which were first noted in the review and measurements at Erin’s Audio Corner.

What’s making me laugh? He’s since gone on to do side-by-side checks against other amps using a number of speakers, including a pair of KEF Blade Metas, rrp £30,000, and he can’t hear a difference.

And yet some insist on pontificating as to what a disaster the Amp is.

Me? I’m happy with that level of ‘disaster’.

Old school says, if you don’t stress amps, you can’t tell them apart.

 

[Steve Woodhouse]

That would be those who missed that the Amp Pro looks exactly the same as the Amp, right? At least as far as the prototypes on display (has there been more than one?) are concerned.

Sorry, by ‘look’ I meant the specs, not the appearance.

 

[harkpabst]

Old school says, if you don’t stress amps, you can’t tell them apart.

Load dependency (as it is present with most all cheap class D designs) happens irrespective of requested power.

"Load" just refers to the impedance over frequency, not if the amp has to do heavy lifting or not. Even when listening at low levels, the effect will kick in. It's different for every single speaker model and it even a theoretical issue with some.

According to the look of the Amp Pro it will employ Post Filter FeedBack, so it's load dependancy will be reduced.

Wether this is audible is topic of many debates. PFFB also reduces noise and distortion, though, so it's generally considered beneficial.

 

[Steve Woodhouse]

I’ve looked at a few of these.

A good example would be the Fosi V3, at 4 ohms there was a decrease in HF between 10kHz, where it was flat, up to 20kHz where it was -0.5dB, which is inaudible, or close to inaudible. For most people over 30, -0.5dB or -5dB at 20kHz wouldn’t make a difference.

At 8 ohms it was flat to 5khz, below +0.25db to 10kHz, and finally + 1db at 20kHz. Again, not audible to many, but possibly just audible to some. The original WiiM Amp was very similar.

In comparison the V3 Mono (with PFFB) is flat to 10kHz and no more than +0.5dB at 20kHz (4 or 8 ohm), and that’s generally considered to be inaudible.

In short, even with PFFB the Amp had frequency load dependence issues which are close to inaudible, but not quite there. Pretty much any implementation of PFFB, no matter how mundane, any improvement at all, will make any issues inaudible.

I fully appreciate people wanting perfection, and the need to try to negate any issues which measure as potentially audible, but at the same time we should be honest when any such issues are incredibly slight, and not exaggerate the issue (not saying that you are @harkpabst).

 

[canard]

but what happens on real load when you go well above 8ohm..16 20 30ohm on the tweeter part or at the crossover which is a fairly common thing...
it's quite surprising that this is not monitored and to stick to 8ohm...
already a basic measurement , even if already too nice compared to reality, at 16 and 32ohm would be interesting...

 

[Steve Woodhouse]

but what happens on real load when you go well above 8ohm..16 20 30ohm on the tweeter part or at the crossover which is a fairly common thing...
it's quite surprising that this is not monitored and to stick to 8ohm...
already a basic measurement , even if already too nice compared to reality, at 16 and 32ohm would be interesting...

What happens? Well, as I’ve noted before, the first person to measure and pick up issues with the WiiM Amp’s output was Erin at his Audio Corner, a post that some people were happy to wade in to use as ‘proof’ that the WiiM Amp was unlistenable.

Erin then got an amp switcher to compare different amplifiers, using different speakers, including the £30,000 KEF Blade Metas. He was unable to tell the WiiM Amp from other, traditional hi-fi amps (though he was able to tell a valve amp).

The same people who waded in to his first post, and who continue to do so, ignore any reference to his later A/B test.

I mean, for obvious reasons.

 

[Steve Woodhouse]

It’d be nice if there was a continued big build up to, and fanfare at the launch of the Ultra, and the Amp Pro just appeared to order on the same day.

 

[canard]

impedance curve of blade above 4-5 khz? what musics use etc
what level of requirement...? etc. I don't know him...

around me, among experienced people with other options in the cupboards, past the surprising q/p effect of small class d...
over time, they all ended up putting them away " in troubleshooting" and handed over modest but more classic class options like ab nad rotel or small English amps etc on their modest systems... "too hard- tiring etc these small class d...in the duration..." but to be honest I don't trust anyone to be interested in this impedance story...
(we know constant impedance speakers like the old 104/2 4ohm which could perhaps be more suitable etc.)

"""over time"""" that's what makes all the difference... always
the irony is that the a/b tests done to uncover bias are ultimately also a bias...

 

[Jls]

Load dependency (as it is present with most all cheap class D designs) happens irrespective of requested power.

"Load" just refers to the impedance over frequency, not if the amp has to do heavy lifting or not. Even when listening at low levels, the effect will kick in. It's different for every single speaker model and it even a theoretical issue with some.

According to the look of the Amp Pro it will employ Post Filter FeedBack, so it's load dependancy will be reduced.

Wether this is audible is topic of many debates. PFFB also reduces noise and distortion, though, so it's generally considered beneficial.

Things like capacitive load are stresses. My intuition says this manifests as irregular frequency response.

 

[Steve Woodhouse]

impedance curve of blade above 4-5 khz? what musics use etc
what level of requirement...? etc. I don't know him...

around me, among experienced people with other options in the cupboards, past the surprising q/p effect of small class d...
over time, they all ended up putting them away " in troubleshooting" and handed over modest but more classic class options like ab nad rotel or small English amps etc on their modest systems... "too hard- tiring etc these small class d...in the duration..." but to be honest I don't trust anyone to be interested in this impedance story...
(we know constant impedance speakers like the old 104/2 4ohm which could perhaps be more suitable etc.)

"""over time"""" that's what makes all the difference... always
the irony is that the a/b tests done to uncover bias are ultimately also a bias...

I have opinions in my cupboard, too.

A few in my sock drawer as well.

But as I say, there’s an undeniable hypocrisy to citing a reviewer for noticing something in the measurements, but then insisting he’s wrong (or actually just pretending he doesn’t exist) when he notes he doesn’t find it audible.

 

[canard]

he hasn't measured anything that hasn't been known for a while about this type of approach and this chip...
(the arrival, implementation, put forward for several months of the pffb has just made the subject resonate differently, while it was voluntarily put aside in the name of "not too much impact and the cost/power" of these small classes d )

( impedance curve of his blade kef ?)


will just be case by case depending on the speakers, requirements etc. that's all...
(I don't care..just tell myself that if friends asked me their opinion..I would warn them regarding the amp-loudspeaker marriage..precautions to take..just that)

 

[Jls]

impedance curve of blade above 4-5 khz? what musics use etc
what level of requirement...? etc. I don't know him...

around me, among experienced people with other options in the cupboards, past the surprising q/p effect of small class d...
over time, they all ended up putting them away " in troubleshooting" and handed over modest but more classic class options like ab nad rotel or small English amps etc on their modest systems... "too hard- tiring etc these small class d...in the duration..." but to be honest I don't trust anyone to be interested in this impedance story...
(we know constant impedance speakers like the old 104/2 4ohm which could perhaps be more suitable etc.)

"""over time"""" that's what makes all the difference... always
the irony is that the a/b tests done to uncover bias are ultimately also a bias...

When you say 104/2 are you referring to KEF? I have 105/3s that I got at an estate sale and had refoamed by Orange County. I also have the Kube 2. I would like to eliminate the Kube and maybe use the eq in a Wimm amp.

Now I’m wondering if the amp and the equalizer will have enough delay to mess up the whole house synch.