You can still use the ultra for volume with the new dac just set to full volume.
Wiim Ultra with external DAC: what output?
- Thread starter Vignus
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Not many DACs measure significantly better than the Ultra.
This might very well be true. But a DAC that sounds pleasing to me is more important than how it measures. Not saying measurements are not important. But how a DAC or any component sounds is just as important IMO.
hgo58
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I just use EQ and DAC roll-off filters
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andreilchimico
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I have a Gustard x26pro and I use the USB input. I did the various comparisons and the USB still seems superior to me... Which model do you have?
I started in August 2024 by outputting digital audio from ULTRA to my RME ADI-2 DAC via a FIIO "audiophile" 50 cm (20 Eur) coaxial cable. Sound was good, but, after about 3 months, the audio signal started to have short pauses (0.5 to 3 seconds). After trying in vain to find the cause, I decided to switch to an ordinary optical cable, which I had somewhere in an old drawer. The hiccups have immediately disappeared. I didn't notice any degradation in the sound and, even more, I lived happily with it, knowing that the optical cable offers galvanic isolation between the streamer and the DAC.
But, as we know, better is sometimes the enemy of good. Today I remembered that WIIM has enabled USB out on WiiM ULTRA and I decided to test it, hoping for even better sound. I used a 3 m USB UGreen cable with gold-plated contacts, which was previously used to output audio from my laptop, in the same setup. Unfortunately, I did not take into account that the cable was 3 m long (and I think this was my biggest mistake). It seems this has generated some clock conflicts between ULTRA and the DAC, with the DAC popping from time to time (about every 2 minutes) while changing the sampling rate from 44.1 to 48 Khz for a few seconds, then back to 44.1.
This issue was totally annoying and, of course, made me think that I must give up the connecting ULTRA to my DAC via USB. Still, because the issue seemed incredible to me, I let the music stream and insisted for some time to check the DAC's menu and settings. After less than 20 minutes, the music stopped and the sound has suddenly reached a very high level, sending my Emotiva amplifier into protection mode, in less than a second. The amplifier has come back to life after a restart, but for my titanium tweeters it was too late. Now I'll have to start a long search, in order to replace either the tweeters or the speakers. Most probably, I will never test USB output again with a 3m cable.
But, as we know, better is sometimes the enemy of good. Today I remembered that WIIM has enabled USB out on WiiM ULTRA and I decided to test it, hoping for even better sound. I used a 3 m USB UGreen cable with gold-plated contacts, which was previously used to output audio from my laptop, in the same setup. Unfortunately, I did not take into account that the cable was 3 m long (and I think this was my biggest mistake). It seems this has generated some clock conflicts between ULTRA and the DAC, with the DAC popping from time to time (about every 2 minutes) while changing the sampling rate from 44.1 to 48 Khz for a few seconds, then back to 44.1.
This issue was totally annoying and, of course, made me think that I must give up the connecting ULTRA to my DAC via USB. Still, because the issue seemed incredible to me, I let the music stream and insisted for some time to check the DAC's menu and settings. After less than 20 minutes, the music stopped and the sound has suddenly reached a very high level, sending my Emotiva amplifier into protection mode, in less than a second. The amplifier has come back to life after a restart, but for my titanium tweeters it was too late. Now I'll have to start a long search, in order to replace either the tweeters or the speakers. Most probably, I will never test USB output again with a 3m cable.
D
Deleted member 9022
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I just noticed the sharper sound and it did make me wonder for a while. I use a (Chord SilverPlus) USB which is really good from the Wiim Ultra out but remembered Coax can give a bolder more compact sound (great for dance/electronic music) than the wider/more natural USB, so I bought COAX again and got that angular sharper type sound, that was Chord C-Line so I returned it. I bought 2nd hand two more Chords, a Clearway and Shawline and I felt it was abit more structured and I did think this was to do with the asynchronous sync that USB that made it feel more natural and relaxed, so I tried my Pro Plus side-by-side / back2back (I use the iFi Linear 5v Power supply with it) and it was soo smooth in comparison to the Ultra via Coax - I really enjoyed it, I use it in a different system and glad I kept it. What I actually managed to find which helped which I have not seen people mentioned is the SYNC AUDIO setting give that a go on the Ultra in the SOUND section.
Sorry to dig this one up, but I’m about to use a WiiM Ultra feeding digital into a pair of quality active speakers (they have their own DAC).
The speakers accept coax or AES/EBU. After reading through most of the comments here about USB vs coax on the Ultra, it seems many people prefer the sound quality of the USB output.
In that case, I was thinking of running USB out of the Ultra into a DDC (like Matrix X-SPDIF 3) and then AES/EBU into the speakers.
Does that make sense, or would you just go straight coax out of the Ultra into the speakers and call it a day?
The speakers accept coax or AES/EBU. After reading through most of the comments here about USB vs coax on the Ultra, it seems many people prefer the sound quality of the USB output.
In that case, I was thinking of running USB out of the Ultra into a DDC (like Matrix X-SPDIF 3) and then AES/EBU into the speakers.
Does that make sense, or would you just go straight coax out of the Ultra into the speakers and call it a day?
Aquaman
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Clearly the tatter!
There‘s no technical reason why the USB output should sound any different than the coax, except for jitter maybe.
But the coax out on the WiiM measures perfectly, so there‘s no reason not to use it.
I actually do and it‘s perfect.
Adding additional devices and inter-connects will at best not change anything, otherwise they might even induce unexpected problems. See the thread about USB output problems with some external DACs.
KISS, keep it stupid simple.
slartibartfast
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Just try coax first.
you guys are incredibly helpful, thank you so much! (and it makes sense)
D
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USB hand the control of the clocking to the external DAC via asynchronous, this means that DAC can control the timing of packets. Whereas COAX handles the clocking and it's downstream! So really, the question should be whether to use the Wiim DAC and just go analogue out or go USB and if you can't go analogue then I have to agree with the you re COAX instead of all the DDC - I owned an SMSL PO100 PRO but sold it as in end felt just convoluting things.
On my Ultra and use both the Chord SilverPlus USB and a Chord Shawline COAX and there are definitely differences. USB sounds more natural so great with more natural instruments and stage is wider and the Shawline COAX I think suits better for electronic music. I might sell the COAX.
I tested Coaxs from Chord C-Line to Clearway to Shawline and USBs from various Audioquest & settled with the SilverPlus (2nd hand they don't make them anymore). If you system is transparent ie you have decent powersupply etc then you can hear the differences.
Aquaman
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Enjoy your listening but please stop spraying snake oil into the environment. Thank you.
My 2 cents here. I could only get a captivating sound stage using optical between my WiiM Pro Plus and a Geshelli J3 (with SS2590 op amps). Strangely, coax collapsed the sound stage?? It was very noticeable. I can't reason why. It could be time to pull out my old HP 1740A oscilloscope to hopefully 'shine some light on this'.
Aquaman
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Whenever I hear the terms ‚soundstage‘, my wife‘ at best combine with ‚from the next room‘ in conjunction with audio equipment other than speakers I know where I‘m at. The bullshit departement!
DACs, cables, ethernet switches or any other electronic circuts have no idea of what a soundstage even is.
hgo58
Major Contributor
No, that is not correct. The asynchronous package transfer on USB is unrelated to the audio clock in the PCM signal. The receiver must supply its own audio clock when using USB but this has nothing to do with the package transfer itself.
With USB it's always the receiver (DAC) that provides the clock and therefore defined how much jitter there is in the signal.
The SPDIF interface (Coax and Optical) includes the senders clock and this may be used by the receiver or the receiver can re-clock the signal and use its own clock. This depends on the DAC used. Typically a low cost DAC just uses the received clock, while a high-end DAC uses its own dedicated clock (that is hopefully better than the senders).
Most of this is however just theoretically, as all modern equipment has a internal clock that provides a jitter well below what is possible to hear.
What cable you use have no influence on the signal in any way, unless it is faulty or a very bad quality. I myself use a $2 optical cable with no issues at all (the external equipment do re-clocking, so any jitter due to optical smear can be ignored).
They're not the only ones.
D
Deleted member 9022
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I am talking about personal experience and USB asynchronous is a thing. Fine if you can't hear the difference between cables and think it's snake oil you are entitled to your opinion and I am allowed to talk from mine, I can't speak for your level of hearing or system. Have a great weekend!
As part of your personal experience you mentioned that coaxial output wasn't even an option and you gave pseudo-technical explanations for why it couldn't be any different.
Expect others to express contradicting experience and plain facts.
Having said that, you absolutely should go with the option that sounds best to you in your environment, of course.
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