Wiim Ultra with external DAC: what output?

[Deleted member 9022]

"I would also recommend trying each digital output into the external DAC to decide which suits (as well as RCA line-output, bypassing an external DAC because the DAC in the Ultra is reputed to be excellent in"

I so using USB will bypass the DAC inside the wiim and use the external dac instead?

RCA your Wiim's DAC is in use
USB will give full control to the external DAC this is in relation to data requests and receipt it manages it all. So to my ears its the smoothest sound.
COAX/Toslink means the Wiim is in control of sending the data to the external DAC to receive and process. So you will hear your external DAC.

You can easily try them all and see what you prefer, just by switching outputs on the Wiim and your DAC/AMP (as you will go direct to Amp via RCA)

 

[j84]

RCA your Wiim's DAC is in use
USB will give full control to the external DAC this is in relation to data requests and receipt it manages it all. So to my ears its the smoothest sound.
COAX/Toslink means the Wiim is in control of sending the data to the external DAC to receive and process. So you will hear your external DAC.

You can easily try them all and see what you prefer, just by switching outputs on the Wiim and your DAC/AMP (as you will go direct to Amp via RCA)

Hi thanks. What if I want to add sb2000pro subwoofer to my setup?

If I use the sub out on the wiim ultra and and then use USB or COAX to connect to the external DAC/preamp, will I still be able to hear the external DAC? Like will the external DAC still have control?

I want to use the external DAC/preamp to control volume and not use the digital control of the wiim.

 

[hgo58]

Hi thanks. What if I want to add sb2000pro subwoofer to my setup?

If I use the sub out on the wiim ultra and and then use USB or COAX to connect to the external DAC/preamp, will I still be able to hear the external DAC? Like will the external DAC still have control?

I want to use the external DAC/preamp to control volume and not use the digital control of the wiim.

If you use the subwoofer output of the WiiM, you must use the WiiM volume control.

 

[slartibartfast]

Hi thanks. What if I want to add sb2000pro subwoofer to my setup?

If I use the sub out on the wiim ultra and and then use USB or COAX to connect to the external DAC/preamp, will I still be able to hear the external DAC? Like will the external DAC still have control?

I want to use the external DAC/preamp to control volume and not use the digital control of the wiim.

You have have been told many times that to use the sub out on the Ultra you must use Ultra volume control.

 

[j84]

If you use the subwoofer output of the WiiM, you must use the WiiM volume control.

Hi thanks. Will using the wiim volume control use the wiim internal DAC? Like will it bypass the external DAC? Like will I not be able to hear the internal DAC?

 

[hgo58]

Hi thanks. Will using the wiim volume control use the wiim DAC? Like will it bypass the external DAC? Like will I not be able to hear the internal DAC?

No. The DAC is not related to volume control.

 

[j84]

No. The DAC is not related to volume control.

Thanks.

 

[Deleted member 9022]

Thanks.

I tried the Wiim as pre and thats via RCA out - thats if you have a power amp and/or your amp has an ability to switch modes from integrated to power amp. Watch out for the volume you it start at, as pretty shocking if you don't start it low and then gain - I made that mistake! You can adjust gain steps in the menus etc

 

[Audiaholic]

I have all 3 connected (TOS, Cox and USB). I use the DAC in my audiolab 8300cdq.
I can hear distinct differences between each, but depending upon your system, you may not notice.
Personally I'd say go with the most affordable option and if you're not satisfied, try one of your other 2 options.
I've found that depending on what I'm listening to, depends upon output required. Regular FLAC at 44.1khz at 16 bit is a choice between coax or TOS (optical). Personally I'm finding coax to be smoother all round. However for hi-res (192khz at 24bit) USB performs best
However, that's just me and what I can notice on my system.
With no intent to offend anyone, some systems don't reveal things like that, the person can't pick up on that, the genres you enjoy don't expose that or a mixture of any of of the above.
ALl I will say is that if you decide to use USB, I suggest a cable that's optimised for audio and nit just any old one off the shelf.
Believe it or not, there's a HUGE difference.
My digital connections from the wiim are all using audioquest cinnamon, just for reference. Don't take that as a "this is what you must have" statement.

Usually, optical/TOS is cheaper, followed by coax and then USB.

Like I say, go with the budget. Whatever you choose you'll notice a difference in comparison analogue connection.

 

[Deleted member 9022]

I have all 3 connected (TOS, Cox and USB). I use the DAC in my audiolab 8300cdq.
I can hear distinct differences between each, but depending upon your system, you may not notice.
Personally I'd say go with the most affordable option and if you're not satisfied, try one of your other 2 options.
I've found that depending on what I'm listening to, depends upon output required. Regular FLAC at 44.1khz at 16 bit is a choice between coax or TOS (optical). Personally I'm finding coax to be smoother all round. However for hi-res (192khz at 24bit) USB performs best
However, that's just me and what I can notice on my system.
With no intent to offend anyone, some systems don't reveal things like that, the person can't pick up on that, the genres you enjoy don't expose that or a mixture of any of of the above.
ALl I will say is that if you decide to use USB, I suggest a cable that's optimised for audio and nit just any old one off the shelf.
Believe it or not, there's a HUGE difference.
My digital connections from the wiim are all using audioquest cinnamon, just for reference. Don't take that as a "this is what you must have" statement.

Usually, optical/TOS is cheaper, followed by coax and then USB.

Like I say, go with the budget. Whatever you choose you'll notice a difference in comparison analogue connection.

We better make this quick whilst Aquaman is out for swim or wrestling sharks. As he will likely call this post snake oil. However, he usually listens to music with water in his ears so can't tell the difference.

I tested all outputs including using a DDC (SMSL PO100 PRO) and without DDC. It didn't make much of a difference as I rather go straight USB to USB than USB to COAX with a box inbetween as USB hands control to the DAC.

I found Coax to be better than TOSLINK - I think I used QED Performance TOS.

I purchased a Chord C-Line (COAX) for £52 new, then both the Chord Clearways which retails at over £100 and Shawline at around £250 both 2nd hand from eBAY, see image. I also tried tried the various USBs from Audioquest (Forest/Cinnamon) and Chord SilverPlus (bought form eBay as they no longer make it).

I think USB would be my pick of outputs as an allrounder, I stuck with the SilverPlus but the Cinnamon was also good but less natural. I had the Audioquest Carbon on order but cancelled as was happy with the Silverplus.

I've seen people spend more you'll soon hit the laws of diminishing returns. Things like physical room corrections make a huge difference and thats often very inexpensive as things like speaker placement make a huge difference. Also, going XLR over RCA if you Amp supports it from an external DAC is pretty significant difference as not only does it have an extremely low noise floor but on my particular amp it's a 12db gain for free as it supplies more power so a huge win via simple cable swap (I originally used the WBC Mogami QUADS but switched to the Van Den Hul D102 MKIII Hybrids)

 

[hgo58]

We better make this quick whilst Aquaman is out for swim or wrestling sharks. As he will likely call this post snake oil. However, he usually listens to music with water in his ears so can't tell the difference.

I tested all outputs including using a DDC (SMSL PO100 PRO) and without DDC. It didn't make much of a difference as I rather go straight USB to USB than USB to COAX with a box inbetween as USB hands control to the DAC.

I found Coax to be better than TOSLINK - I think I used QED Performance TOS.

I purchased a Chord C-Line (COAX) for £52 new, then both the Chord Clearways which retails at over £100 and Shawline at around £250 both 2nd hand from eBAY, see image. I also tried tried the various USBs from Audioquest (Forest/Cinnamon) and Chord SilverPlus (bought form eBay as they no longer make it).

I think USB would be my pick of outputs as an allrounder, I stuck with the SilverPlus but the Cinnamon was also good but less natural. I had the Audioquest Carbon on order but cancelled as was happy with the Silverplus.

I've seen people spend more you'll soon hit the laws of diminishing returns. Things like physical room corrections make a huge difference and thats often very inexpensive as things like speaker placement make a huge difference. Also, going XLR over RCA if you Amp supports it from an external DAC is pretty significant difference as not only does it have an extremely low noise floor but on my particular amp it's a 12db gain for free as it supplies more power so a huge win via simple cable swap (I originally used the WBC Mogami QUADS but switched to the Van Den Hul D102 MKIII Hybrids)

It's amazing you can hear a difference between the different interfaces but good for you. You do however clearly not understand how it all works regarding the audio data transfer and keeps talking about the USB giving control to the DAC.

The audio data transfered on SPDIF and USB is exactly the same and the DAC have the same control no matter what interface you use. It's just different ways of transport with USB being package transfer that always need to be buffered on both sender and receiver side. While SPDIF can be buffered on receiver if a local clock is used or else just used directly without re-clocking.

And even if you use 32 bit USB, it's still just 24 bits upscaled, on WiiM.

 

[Burnside]

Okay, great so Wiim decided to put a ESS ES9038 32bit DAC inside the Ultra and put the menu option of output in 32bit just so they can instead output it in 24bit and upscale it, is that what you are saying?

Also, can you please detail the system you have (you are under an alias anyway) and what cables you have tried, because I feel you either don't have a system revealing enough to hear the differences in cables or you have not purchased and compared things for yourself!

I look forward to your response, it's been a pleasure as always Mr HGO58!

Ah, been a while since I heard the “your system isn’t revealing enough” comeback…

 

[slartibartfast]

Ah, been a while since I heard the “your system isn’t revealing enough” comeback…

Where did that post go? I was just about to reply confirming that WiiM indeed do up sample 24 bit to 32 bit for volume control.

 

[hgo58]

Ah, been a while since I heard the “your system isn’t revealing enough” comeback…

And I can't stop laughing either when talking about cables in the digital domain, that changes the sound quality.

The companies selling this stuff clearly lives on the customers lack of knowledge.

 

[Deleted member 9022]

It's amazing you can hear a difference between the different interfaces but good for you. You do however clearly not understand how it all works regarding the audio data transfer and keeps talking about the USB giving control to the DAC.

The audio data transfered on SPDIF and USB is exactly the same and the DAC have the same control no matter what interface you use. It's just different ways of transport with USB being package transfer that always need to be buffered on both sender and receiver side. While SPDIF can be buffered on receiver if a local clock is used or else just used directly without re-clocking.

And even if you use 32 bit USB, it's still just 24 bits upscaled, on WiiM.

Okay, great so Wiim decided to put a ESS ES9038 32bit DAC inside the Ultra and put the menu option of output in 32bit just so they can instead output it in 24bit and upscale it, is that what you are saying?

So, let's conclude this once and for all. I can understand upscaling to some degree as Audirvana does and it's pretty good. When you watch a 1080p film on a 4K TV, it upscales it because it has to.

You are getting stuck on fine details, if something is upscaled then wouldn't it have more resolution by virtue? Would a 1080p film upscaled to 4k just have 1080p pixels? No

The fact that the Wiim has a 32bit capable DAC Chip inside, I would imagine the upscaling to be pretty good, wouldn't you think?

Now would a 1080p film or a 24bit file upscaled sound/look better than a native 4k / 32bit you would have to say no. But, would the upscaled look better than the original and you would have to say, yes!!!!

So, if it arrives at 32bit I would imagine it would sound better than before and due to the way USB allows full control to external DAC for data the resulting sound to my ears vs £250rrp COAX which I tested it myself is smoother, this is real life test with my own money!!!

Now, can you please detail the system you have (you are under an alias anyway) and what cables you have tried, because I feel you either don't have a system revealing enough to hear the differences in cables or you have not purchased and compared things for yourself!

I look forward to your response, it's been a pleasure as always Mr HGO58!

 

[Deleted member 9022]

Where did that post go? I was just about to reply confirming that WiiM indeed do up sample 24 bit to 32 bit for volume control.

I have re=posted it now for your pleasure!

 

[Deleted member 9022]

And I can't stop laughing either when talking about cables in the digital domain, that changes the sound quality.

The companies selling this stuff clearly lives on the customers lack of knowledge.

Knowledge? We have ears!

 

[Deleted member 9022]

And I can't stop laughing either when talking about cables in the digital domain, that changes the sound quality.

The companies selling this stuff clearly lives on the customers lack

l couldn’t care less how you listen to your WiiM, stop mocking others, it’s childish and that’s a reflection on you, not me! The way you are acting with me, it's no wonder your parents never gave you enough pocket money to buy a decent cable!

 

[hgo58]

Okay, great so Wiim decided to put a ESS ES9038 32bit DAC inside the Ultra and put the menu option of output in 32bit just so they can instead output it in 24bit and upscale it, is that what you are saying?

The menu options are what is supported by the external DAC, not what is used internally by the WiiM.

So, let's conclude this once and for all. I can understand upscaling to some degree as Audirvana does and it's pretty good. When you watch a 1080p film on a 4K TV, it upscales it because it has to.

You are getting stuck on fine details, if something is upscaled then wouldn't it have more resolution by virtue? Would a 1080p film upscaled to 4k just have 1080p pixels? No

The fact that the Wiim has a 32bit capable DAC Chip inside, I would imagine the upscaling to be pretty good, wouldn't you think?

The DAC is not related to the upscaling.

Now would a 1080p film or a 24bit file upscaled sound/look better than a native 4k / 32bit you would have to say no. But, would the upscaled look better than the original and you would have to say, yes!!!!

The dynamic range will still be the original 24 bit, just spred out to 32 bit.

If the DAC support 24 bit, use that and let the DAC handle it.

So, if it arrives at 32bit I would imagine it would sound better than before and due to the way USB allows full control to external DAC for data the resulting sound to my ears vs £250rrp COAX which I tested it myself is smoother, this is real life test with my own money!!!

You still refuse to understand how USB works. Please look it up.

Now, can you please detail the system you have (you are under an alias anyway) and what cables you have tried, because I feel you either don't have a system revealing enough to hear the differences in cables or you have not purchased and compared things for yourself!

I have active speakers with optical input. And a $2 optical cable connection to a Hub that is reclocking the SPDIF signal.

I have been in this field for the last 40 years, also professionally and have tried a lot of things. Only place I did use better cables was when my main system was analog. Now it's fully digital all the way to the speakers. So as long there is no data loss (there aren't), it's all as good as it can be.

 

[Aquaman]

I guess mogily has spent too much time on the Naim forum. People there are so full of ... belief.