Wiim Ultra with large powered hard drive

[Steve Woodhouse]

Database versus folder. Artist photo, years active, with album covers, artist information, showing genres, A-Z album listing on the left

It's just better. Guess some people like horrid music selection experience

You’re at it again. Saying you prefer something is great. Why do you have to insist anyone else’s preference is ‘horrid’?

 

[rccarguy]

You’re at it again. Saying you prefer something is great. Why do you have to insist anyone else’s preference is ‘horrid’?

Because it is, objectively. I've said why database is better. Which looks better, more presentable and easier to recognise artist? Have you replaced all your beautiful, easy to recognise album vinyl covers with white blank pieces of paper?

I've given over a dozen reasons why database system is superior. Even if you only listen to a complete album from start to finish, database is still better. Superior for large collections. It'll also show collobrations also, so able to link to those other artists or band members (ie for Fleetwood Mac able to go to Stevie Nicks, Peter Green, Mick Fleetwood, Lindsey Buckingham, Christine Mcvie solo albums)

Another benefit is flac, vorbis, and mp3 directories, I have seperate Mp3/flac/vorbis folders (on seperate drives) so if I wanted to listen to Abba Greatest hits, but I'm not sure if it's mp3, vorbis or flac, I would need to go to \flac\a\abba\greatest hits or \vorbis\a\abba\greatest hits or \mp3\a\abba\greatest hits

Putting lossless and lossy in one big directory is a bit of a mess, a risk for backup, management and batch lossless to lossy conversion reasons (ie if I wanted lossy copy for car/portable use)

In a database it would be in \Abba\Greatest hits, it will show any albums whether flac, ogg, mp3 AND it will show the file type, bitrate etc . With folder view the extension will be off to the side at the end of the filename, most likely off the screen on the phone. No info, until you start playing. I could use "release type tag" add "Mp3" to that, and it would be in here, if you wanted to seperate mp3 and flac in the artist branch, ie you could have a "128kb low bitrate" release tag so you put them aside and listen to better versions, or for vinyl rips etc. I've just created a flac and mp3 copies just for you to show you haha. You could also use "release type" for versions to split up 16 bit/44.1khz and 96/192khz versions of albums

I've used folder browsing way back in Rockbox supported players, for that it worked ok. But now with more powerful database service options, art..no contest.

Also a music scanner will detect "The" so it'll place it correctly in the listing

And for multi disc albums even more issue, you'd either have to create sub directory CD1 CD2 etc then manually go back change into CD2 directory, or have all files in the same directory, create filename structure so it plays in order, ie CD1 is track 1-10, CD2 is track 11 - 20. etc With database it will use disc tag, so track/filename for each CD can simply be the original 1 - title. And it doesn't matter if they're all in the same directory, or in seperate CD1/CD2 directories. With database it's like this

The more I think of it, the more I see the problems with folders!

What say you?

 

[Wiimer]

Because it is, objectively. I've said why database is better. Which looks better, more presentable and easier to recognise artist? Have you replaced all your beautiful, easy to recognise album vinyl covers with white blank pieces of paper?

I've given over a dozen reasons why database system is superior. Even if you only listen to a complete album from start to finish, database is still better. Superior for large collections. It'll also show collobrations also, so able to link to those other artists or band members (ie for Fleetwood Mac able to go to Stevie Nicks, Peter Green, Mick Fleetwood, Lindsey Buckingham, Christine Mcvie solo albums)

Another benefit is flac, vorbis, and mp3 directories, I have seperate Mp3/flac/vorbis folders (on seperate drives) so if I wanted to listen to Abba Greatest hits, but I'm not sure if it's mp3, vorbis or flac, I would need to go to \flac\a\abba\greatest hits or \vorbis\a\abba\greatest hits or \mp3\a\abba\greatest hits

Putting lossless and lossy in one big directory is a bit of a mess, a risk for backup, management and batch lossless to lossy conversion reasons (ie if I wanted lossy copy for car/portable use)

In a database it would be in \Abba\Greatest hits, it will show any albums whether flac, ogg, mp3 AND it will show the file type, bitrate etc . With folder view the extension will be off to the side at the end of the filename, most likely off the screen on the phone. No info, until you start playing. I could use "release type tag" add "Mp3" to that, and it would be in here, if you wanted to seperate mp3 and flac in the artist branch, ie you could have a "128kb low bitrate" release tag so you put them aside and listen to better versions, or for vinyl rips etc. I've just created a flac and mp3 copies just for you to show you haha. You could also use "release type" for versions to split up 16 bit/44.1khz and 96/192khz versions of albums

I've used folder browsing way back in Rockbox supported players, for that it worked ok. But now with more powerful database service options, art..no contest.

Also a music scanner will detect "The" so it'll place it correctly in the listing

And for multi disc albums even more issue, you'd either have to create sub directory CD1 CD2 etc then manually go back change into CD2 directory, or have all files in the same directory, create filename structure so it plays in order, ie CD1 is track 1-10, CD2 is track 11 - 20. etc With database it will use disc tag, so track/filename for each CD can simply be the original 1 - title. And it doesn't matter if they're all in the same directory, or in seperate CD1/CD2 directories. With database it's like this

The more I think of it, the more I see the problems with folders!

What say you?

Sorry,
The more I listen to you, the more I see a salesman with poor performance.

 

[harkpabst]

I'd really appreciate getting back to the topic.

@Sylvain, @cheznous, WiiM Support confirmed in a response to my ticket that the rescan issues are a bug in the current WiiM Home App, which will be fixed with the next release.

Indexing is offloaded to the phone, so your smartphones performance and network speed will also have an impact on indexing performance. But the main flaw is with the current app version and should be repaired soon.

 

[Steve Woodhouse]

I'd really appreciate getting back to the topic.

@Sylvain, @cheznous, WiiM Support confirmed in a response to my ticket that the rescan issues are a bug in the current WiiM Home App, which will be fixed with the next release.

Indexing is offloaded to the phone, so your smartphones performance and network speed will also have an impact on indexing performance. But the main flaw is with the current app version and should be repaired soon.

Good info., many thanks.

 

[simbun]

Indexing is offloaded to the phone, so your smartphones performance and network speed will also have an impact on indexing performance.

I've read that before and I believe the scanning dialog does tell you to leave the app in the foreground, but I just can't believe that's the case, especially given that MiniDLNA must be on the WiiM.

Have you tried putting the phone into aeroplane mode during scanning?

 

[harkpabst]

I've read that before and I believe the scanning dialog does tell you to leave the app in the foreground, but I just can't believe that's the case, especially given that MiniDLNA must be on the WiiM.

Have you tried putting the phone into aeroplane mode during scanning?

Nope, so far I've just trusted WiiM on it.

At least if this problem can and will be fixed purely by an app update this could be indicative.

However, I might just as well try out your suggestion.

 

[Solus47]

If you already have a machine running 24*7 then you're going to have a much better experience using a different media server. If you're happy with the WiiM Home app then MinimServer is the best option, otherwise you could look at Plex or LMS but things do get a little more complex.


It's just a bug which I'm sure WiiM will fix shortly, and as it's been working on the Amp for some time now I don't think there's anything for you to worry about.

I think there's a thread about active speakers on this forum, but if not and you're looking for advice why not start one.

Thank you for advice!

I’m familiar with Plex from to Movie side of things but not LMS.

Talking about the WiiM home app, how does that compare to other methods of organising media. Is it correct that you can edit data and add artwork through the home app?

Also, still on the topic of connecting a powered hard drive, How does the in built software deal with already curated collection with artwork in the folders?

I guess I should probably stop asking all these questions and fire up the device and see for myself, what does and does not work.

Thanks again for the advice

 

[Mr Ee]

Talking about the WiiM home app...Is it correct that you can edit data and add artwork through the home app?

I'm pretty certain the wiim app can't do that.

 

[simbun]

I’m familiar with Plex from to Movie side of things but not LMS.

There are some Plex integrations due soon (within the next month) so if you already have Plex running 24x7 then that might be your ultimate solution.

Talking about the WiiM home app, how does that compare to other methods of organising media. Is it correct that you can edit data and add artwork through the home app?

As @Mr Ee already stated, the WiiM Home app isn't a media management tool, it's - amongst a lot of other things - a media server, for management duties you're probably best looking at something like Mp3tag/foobar2000.

Also, still on the topic of connecting a powered hard drive, How does the in built software deal with already curated collection with artwork in the folders?

I don't have an Amp/Ultra but I believe the WiiM scanner only supports album artwork, though it does promote album artwork up to the Artist and Genre indexes.

 

[d6jg]

I don't have an Amp/Ultra but I believe the WiiM scanner only supports album artwork, though it does promote album artwork up to the Artist and Genre indexes.

I have been mucking about with the WiiM App and Plex via DLNA. The App remains problematic but mconnect makes it usable. Anyway I noticed yesterday that Plex actually provides Artist artwork at appropriate points e.g. Genre / Blues

Screenshot is mconnect but it is the same in WiiM App (when it eventually opens).

 

[simbun]

I have been mucking about with the WiiM App and Plex via DLNA. The App remains problematic but mconnect makes it usable. Anyway I noticed yesterday that Plex actually provides Artist artwork at appropriate points e.g. Genre / Blues

KODI does the same (probably Emby and JellyFin too) and in some ways it's better than Plex (over DLNA) but I don't think there's a headless version, or at least not a supported one.

The WHA remains the problem though, at least for local browsing and it would take so little to fix. Maybe WiiM lack that skill set.

 

[rccarguy]

KODI does the same (probably Emby and JellyFin too) and in some ways it's better than Plex (over DLNA) but I don't think there's a headless version, or at least not a supported one.

The WHA remains the problem though, at least for local browsing and it would take so little to fix. Maybe WiiM lack that skill set.

I have a Kodi box, added the music via NFS share and using Kodi scanner/scraper. The scraper isn't bad, and retrieves quite a bit of artist information. But the Core app is buggy, and music navigation is painfully slow, going into artists, album and then back out again. With the Kodi box is seems to disappear from the Core app for now reason needing a reboot.

It also lacks LMS Album Artists branch. I believe you can add this with PC version, or going into telnet, but I can't be bothered with that, and other things LMS offers.

It's better than nothing and I've used it when I was rebuilding my Pi LMS install as a "backup music player" but it comes in second place to LMS or just using a PC as a source.

 

[Smartplug]

It would be helpful if wiim would states what is the maximum storage can be attach so everyone is aware and not asking over and over again.

 

[Burnside]

It would be helpful if wiim would states what is the maximum storage can be attach so everyone is aware and not asking over and over again.

I asked in a ticket and they said up to what the supported file systems support.

Edit: or more accurately what they said verbatim : “Our WiiM devices currently have no capacity limitations on USB drives”

 

[Smartplug]

I asked in a ticket and they said up to what the supported file systems support.

Edit: or more accurately what they said verbatim : “Our WiiM devices currently have no capacity limitations on USB drives”

NTFS support up to 8 peta byte. We’re far from reaching that and as of today’s tech.

 

[harkpabst]

Have you tried putting the phone into aeroplane mode during scanning?

Unfortunately, the results have been ambiguous.

I deleted files.db and started the re-scan from my other phone (Sony Xperia 10 iV, Snapdragon 695, 6 GiB RAM). I kept the indexing running for 30 minutes. The number of files that got indexed up to that point (4246 out of 12626) has been pretty much identical to my first attempt on my primary phone (Xiaomi 12, Snapdragon 8 Gen1, 8 GB RAM). Then I put the Sony in flight mode and waited for over 60 minutes. That should have been more that enough time to complete the scan.

Next I checked the status on my primary phone and the indexing information hadn't changed at all. Still one album and 10 songs missing. The index was definitely broken at that point because certain songs would play, while other entries pointed to the wrong song.

Then I had a look at what's been happening on the Sony in flight mode:

Scan Complete - Access Issue. OK. So, at least we can conclude that rebuilding the index doesn't work if the WiiM Home App cannot communicate with the WiiM device. The index

After disabling flight mode the media server statistics had not changed a bit, so I started the re-scan one more time. It just took a couple of minutes (I forgot to write down the exact time) and finally the index was updated correctly. Since this final re-scan went so far, there is definitely a good amount of data that WiiM Home must have held in memory.

 

[simbun]

I have a Kodi box, added the music via NFS share and using Kodi scanner/scraper. The scraper isn't bad, and retrieves quite a bit of artist information. But the Core app is buggy, and music navigation is painfully slow, going into artists, album and then back out again.

I've only tried it with a small quantity of music but in terms of indexing it did the basics well. I was using it over DLNA with WHA/BubbleUPnP rather than Core, trying to find a simple solution for newbies that would work with the WHA and offered artist image scraping. It can even be run on a phone/tablet, at least on Android.

It also lacks LMS Album Artists branch. I believe you can add this with PC version, or going into telnet, but I can't be bothered with that, and other things LMS offers.

There's a toggle in the UI to switch to an Album Artist index, but if you also want a track artist index it's a little more work (from memory it's an xml change). I haven't found the time/motivation to try it but I believe the xml configuration offers a lot of customisation.

 

[simbun]

Next I checked the status on my primary phone and the indexing information hadn't changed at all. Still one album and 10 songs missing. The index was definitely broken at that point because certain songs would play, while other entries pointed to the wrong song.

Generates more questions than it answers
Given the way MiniDLNA names its streams (tracks) this could mean that your primary phone was using the old index yet the web server on the WiiM was using the new, or vice versa....possibly.

I wonder if this dependency on the WiiM app is why some are having to perform multiple rescans to get their entire collection indexed. Might be worth getting an ethernet adaptor for those big collections and keeping it plugged in!

 

[cheznous]

So exactly, it doesn’t work for you either as my point was additions and subtractions of files aren’t picked up.
Some guy had same problem with his Amp as well I believe.
Hopefully it will be fixed.
Regards

Just an update. Following recent update now seems to work and additions picked up. But rescan seems to scan the whole drive again so is not the fastest.