Beta Test: Room Correction for Android

[bernard23]

You said here "the Dayton mic is working perfectly well with Spectroid, Audio Tool and Sound Recorder"

Beta Test: Room Correction for Android

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forum.wiimhome.com

Did you not check the operation of IMM-6 on the tablet? Also, you have confirmed that the IMM-6 is picking up sound reliably on the LG V30, right?

If the IMM-6 is recognized correctly, the app graph should respond to a light touch on the tip of the microphone, and not to a touch on the built-in microphone. (There is no need to strong tap it with your finger. A slight touch is sufficient.)

Yes, Yes, and yes.

However, google (one android forum and reddit) samsung online "expert" have advised it's a TRS jack only hence my confusion. It's possible that plugging in the Dayton into the tablet isn't cutting the built in mic when I tested it on other apps, but the why does the Wiim app display "h2w" when i start tuning.
The V30 is definitely TRRS capable, and checked it in exactly the way your described. I've raised another ticket as requested by Wiim helpdesk, as they indeed did suggest rebooting the device, which hasn't fixed the V30 issue.

 

[Wiimer]

Yes, Yes, and yes.

However, google (one android forum and reddit) samsung online "expert" have advised it's a TRS jack only hence my confusion. It's possible that plugging in the Dayton into the tablet isn't cutting the built in mic when I tested it on other apps, but the why does the Wiim app display "h2w" when i start tuning.
The V30 is definitely TRRS capable, and checked it in exactly the way your described. I've raised another ticket as requested by Wiim helpdesk, as they indeed did suggest rebooting the device, which hasn't fixed the V30 issue.

Sorry, to be honest I am not sure.

The current WiiM app has no way to verify that only the external microphone is working reliably. All we can do is compare the results. So I hope that in the future a functionality as a measurement app will be added.

As for the error, I guess we have to wait for the team to analyze it, but in my case it was a temporary error.

 

[jmudrick]

Yes, Yes, and yes.

However, google (one android forum and reddit) samsung online "expert" have advised it's a TRS jack only hence my confusion. It's possible that plugging in the Dayton into the tablet isn't cutting the built in mic when I tested it on other apps, but the why does the Wiim app display "h2w" when i start tuning.
The V30 is definitely TRRS capable, and checked it in exactly the way your described. I've raised another ticket as requested by Wiim helpdesk, as they indeed did suggest rebooting the device, which hasn't fixed the V30 issue.

FWIW my Anthem USB mic works just fine on my V30. Results are essentially the same as when using the Pixel 8a.

 

[rcon7]

That's a reasonable correlation, way more so than my test results. How did you connect the Dayton to your S23?

apple dongle to USBC port. I can post my other yest results? I used a Samsung S10e and an Stab tablet and plugged imm6 directly into the 3.5mm input. As well for fun on the Samsung S10e I tested with the imm6 connected to the USB c with the apple dongle as well as straight into the 3.5mm input, as the S10e has both. all yielded similar results. including all tested with their internal mics. surprisingly they all had that off drop-off at 10k? like the S23 tested and posted earlier.

 

[bernard23]

FWIW my Anthem USB mic works just fine on my V30. Results are essentially the same as when using the Pixel 8a.

Weird why mine doesn't....

apple dongle to USBC port. I can post my other yest results? I used a Samsung S10e and an Stab tablet and plugged imm6 directly into the 3.5mm input. As well for fun on the Samsung S10e I tested with the imm6 connected to the USB c with the apple dongle as well as straight into the 3.5mm input, as the S10e has both. all yielded similar results. including all tested with their internal mics. surprisingly they all had that off drop-off at 10k? like the S23 tested and posted earlier.

I've just got a DAC/ADC dongle from Amazon this afternoon. Not had a chance to do a sweep test yet with the S23 and the Dayton, but I did test it in the Wiim app, and it shows the external device name as connected, so that's promising. Hopefully some time tomorrow to do some native mic S23 tests vs dayton + S23 and see what we get....

 

[harkpabst]

Weird why mine doesn't....


I've just got a DAC/ADC dongle from Amazon this afternoon. Not had a chance to do a sweep test yet with the S23 and the Dayton, but I did test it in the Wiim app, and it shows the external device name as connected, so that's promising. Hopefully some time tomorrow to do some native mic S23 tests vs dayton + S23 and see what we get....

Your Dayton Audio microphone is not a USB mic, or is it?

That's a totally different story. The WiiM Home App or in fact the Android OS knows nothing about the analogue mic. It just knows what the ADC is reporting.

A USB mic like the UMM-6 or the MiniDSP UMIK-1 does contain an ADC and identifies itself as what it is to the phone. It can support absolute SPL measurements even without an external calibration file.

 

[bernard23]

No, I've got a iMM-6C so analogue. What I meant was that the Wiim app has detected the ADC in the dongle I bought, ergo it's not using the built in mic in the Samsung S23.
The V30 is a different issue, it has a built in ADC as it has a 3.5mm jack, so it recognises an "external mic", but for some reason it doesn't work when using the Wiim app.
Incidentally, I've discovered Dayton make a USB-C version of the IMM-6 with a built in DAC/ADC which I've also bought but is coming from the US so a couple of weeks away.

 

[jmudrick]

No, I've got a iMM-6C so analogue. What I meant was that the Wiim app has detected the ADC in the dongle I bought, ergo it's not using the built in mic in the Samsung S23.
The V30 is a different issue, it has a built in ADC as it has a 3.5mm jack, so it recognises an "external mic", but for some reason it doesn't work when using the Wiim app.
Incidentally, I've discovered Dayton make a USB-C version of the IMM-6 with a built in DAC/ADC which I've also bought but is coming from the US so a couple of weeks away.

FWIW. I also have an old Sony mic with 3.5mm jack which the V30 sees but cannot use. Use USB.

 

[harkpabst]

No, I've got a iMM-6C so analogue.

You're leaving me more confused than before. iMM-6C is actually a "digital" mic with integrated ADC and digital output though an USB-C connector. It happens to provide a 3.5 mm output jack fed by its DAC the phone:


Not to be confused, iMM-6 ...

... and iMM-6S ...

... are analogue microphones that must be connected to a 3.5 mm socket, which most devices no longer have. If your device still has the 3.5 mm input there is still nothing the phone or the WiiM Home App running on it know about these mics except that any mic has been plugged in.

EMM-6 is also an analogue microphone, but one that needs phantom power and cannot be plugged into a smartphone using some dongle style ADC.

Incidentally, I've discovered Dayton make a USB-C version of the IMM-6 with a built in DAC/ADC which I've also bought but is coming from the US so a couple of weeks away.

And this exactly is the iMM-6C you just claimed you already have.

 

[bernard23]

OK, it was late at night after a long day:

I have the analogue version. That's the one all of my testing refers to.

I have also ordered the C version with the built on dac but I don't have it yet.

Hopefully you follow me now.

 

[bernard23]

FWIW. I also have an old Sony mic with 3.5mm jack which the V30 sees but cannot use. Use USB.

Thanks, that is useful to know!

 

[bernard23]

Not to be confused, iMM-6 ...
View attachment 10128



EMM-6 is also an analogue microphone, but one that needs phantom power and cannot be plugged into a smartphone

apple dongle to USBC port. I can post my other yest results? I used a Samsung S10e and an Stab tablet and plugged imm6 directly into the 3.5mm input. As well for fun on the Samsung S10e I tested with the imm6 connected to the USB c with the apple dongle as well as straight into the 3.5mm input, as the S10e has both. all yielded similar results. including all tested with their internal mics. surprisingly they all had that off drop-off at 10k? like the S23 tested and posted earlier.

So this infers that the majority of 3.5mm TRRS jacks on devices that still have them are active, in that there is a level of output voltage to drive the mic? How does that work?
rcon7 has been using an Apple dongle, so presumably these are also "active" (I'm assuming that in this case it was working as expected) which implies that an (some?) ADC dongle(s) can work?

 

[slartibartfast]

So this infers that the majority of 3.5mm TRRS jacks on devices that still have them are active, in that there is a level of output voltage to drive the mic? How does that work?
rcon7 has been using an Apple dongle, so presumably these are also "active" (I'm assuming that in this case it was working as expected) which implies that an (some?) ADC dongle(s) can work?

What do you mean by active? The iMM6 doesn't need phantom power.

 

[bernard23]

What do you mean by active? The iMM6 doesn't need phantom power.

You're leaving me more confused than before. iMM-6C is actually a "digital" mic with integrated ADC and digital output though an USB-C connector. It happens to provide a 3.5 mm output jack fed by its DAC the phone:
View attachment 10127

Not to be confused, iMM-6 ...
View attachment 10128
... and iMM-6S ...
View attachment 10129
... are analogue microphones that must be connected to a 3.5 mm socket, which most devices no longer have. If your device still has the 3.5 mm input there is still nothing the phone or the WiiM Home App running on it know about these mics except that any mic has been plugged in.

EMM-6 is also an analogue microphone, but one that needs phantom power and cannot be plugged into a smartphone using some dongle style ADC.


And this exactly is the iMM-6C you just claimed you already have.

Not my words!!

I'm responding to a previous post claiming it does need phantom power!


Now I'm confused...

Does anyone know how the iMM-6 actually works?? (I don't know, that's why I've been asking multiple questions in the last 3 pages....). I'd suggest it's an important topic given the inherent uncertainty of using the in-built mics of a million different android devices, and the Dayton mics are a cheap way of removing a large part of that uncertainty?

 

[slartibartfast]

Not my words!!

I'm responding to a previous post claiming it does need phantom power!


Now I'm confused...

The previous post said the EMM6 needed phantom power not the iMM6.

 

[bernard23]

OK. Got it. Nothing like reading the post properly... Apologies for confusing folk.

Anyway I have some new curves done with Dayton iMM-6, cheap dongle and S23 and S23 built in mic that I'll post later.

 

[harkpabst]

So this infers that the majority of 3.5mm TRRS jacks on devices that still have them are active, in that there is a level of output voltage to drive the mic? How does that work?

Electret microphones (or more precisely electret condensor mics) are fed a minimal voltage of ~2 V. The capsule itself provides an electrostatic charge by means of the "electret".

Pure condensor microphones (missing the electret) need an external "phantom power" for operation. The typical phantom power is supplied through a 48 V supply. This voltage is much higher than what an electret can supply. As a result the mics can deal with higher sound pressure levels and are (at least potentially) more linear.

The iMM-6, iMM-6C and iMM-6S are electret mics. Unfortunately, Dayton Audio also call the EMM-6 an electret condensor microphone, requiring a rather unusual phantom supply of 15 - 48 V. I can only imagine that this voltage is not really required by the mic capsule itself but by some circuitry they build around it. It probably uses just 15 V internally but will accept the more common 48 V and maybe just regulates it down to 15 V.

This last statement is pure speculation on my part. However, the EMM-6 does require an external supply voltage and cannot be directly connected to a smartphone.

 

[bernard23]

Here are some sweeps for following system:

Android Device: Samsung Galaxy S23 Ultra
OS: Android 14, One UI 6.1
Wiim App version: 2.11.0.240805.873131
Wiim Device: Pro Plus Firmware version 4.8.623428

I've taken minimum 3 sweeps of the S23 using its internal mic, and then with a Dayton iMM-6 external mic attached using a generic DAC/ADC dongle (https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B0C9R9JN6Q/ref=ask_ql_qh_dp_hza?th=1)

I took 4 readings with the Dayton mic, as the first one the sound level was a bit low, so I increased the volume slightly on the audio system and then took the measurements 2,3 and 4 with the dongle, then three readings using the inbuilt mic without making any changes to the room or audio system settings

Reasonable consistency with the Dayton readings, and also with 2 of the inbuilt mic profiles. First inbuilt mic profile shows a node at 30Hz that it's trying to correct, not surprising as the audible volume of the Wharfedale sub drops off a cliff at around 35Hz. I probably need to adjust the sweep range back to the default 40Hz - 40kHz, otherwise I have ignored the data point.

The next step is to calculate an average profile from the Dayton 2,3,4 set and use that as a starting point. At some point I'm going to the same measurement but taking the grilles off the speakers (Elac DBR62) and see what effect they have, and then maybe mess about with some strategic floor mats (we have a large wooden floor with a central rug and coffee table).

 

[Griff]

Not my words!!

I'm responding to a previous post claiming it does need phantom power!


Now I'm confused...

Does anyone know how the iMM-6 actually works?? (I don't know, that's why I've been asking multiple questions in the last 3 pages....). I'd suggest it's an important topic given the inherent uncertainty of using the in-built mics of a million different android devices, and the Dayton mics are a cheap way of removing a large part of that uncertainty?

Yes I think so. I have tried it on my Sony Xperia 1 v. Checked it when it's not plugged in I get a message using internal mic. When plugged in no message come up.

 

[rcon7]

So this infers that the majority of 3.5mm TRRS jacks on devices that still have them are active, in that there is a level of output voltage to drive the mic? How does that work?
rcon7 has been using an Apple dongle, so presumably these are also "active" (I'm assuming that in this case it was working as expected) which implies that an (some?) ADC dongle(s) can work?

no surprisingly re any dongle dac. out of 3 I have that all operate the same re headphones and mic capable, only the apple worked with wiim RC using the imm6 3.5mm. I have the USB c imm6 ordered and on way to test as well.