Enhanced Room Correction is Here!

So, I did the R & L RC to very good results and also the beta three tests in a row.

Then tonight, I noted earlier in this thread about the "Equalize Freq." in Room Correction.

First went down from 40 to 28Hz. Wow, that was really nice. Great improvement in the lower end.
Then dropped it all the way down to 20Hz.

Wow, absolutely superb and great improvement beyond any expectation. My speakers were rated down to 40K but there was recapping done and that was a big improvement too. Thanks so much WiiM, unreal.
This might be the tricky part. As @Smartplug already said you probably see a massive boost in the lowest bass when you look at your PEQ filters. Some advocate against any form of boost in the correction, because "dips cannot be corrected for". However, down below 40 Hz we're probably not talking about dips due to room modes or speaker boundary interference response (unless you're living in a very large room). Extending the lower limit of room correction that much to lower frequencies will simply push your speakers harder to extend their frequency response.

This alone has it's pitfalls. Boost in EQ might lead to clipping in the digital domain unless the volume limit is reduced (I still need to investigate further in this issue). Your power amp section will have to work much harder (boosting the SPL by 10 dB requires 10 times the amplifier power at the boosted frequency!). Finally the excursion of your speaker cones will increase an thermal stress on voice coils and crossover components will increase. In short, you can gain more bass extension but always at the price of reduced maximum loudness.

Finally, it is also not too unlikely that your microphone (which one?) doesn't even measure frequencies below 40 Hz correctly. If the mic just registers a lower SPL than actually present, the WiiM room correction will wrongly assume it needs to apply boost. The result is simply an overemphasised bass.

As long as you are happy with the result (and you are aware of the fact that you're getting closer to the power limits of your amp and speakers) everything is fine. Just make sure to ask yourself it what you here now is really more natural or just more pleasing (many of us are simply more happy with more bass ;) ). Even if your answer is the latter it's still fine if you like it better that way.
 
Yeah, I tell myself that too :ROFLMAO:
It is, seriously! 😃
I did a lot of researching, had quite a few speakers over the years, and listened to many of the best systems at dealers and audio shows.
I put this system together over the last year. The Ascend ELX ribbon towers are extremely clear, detailed, and accurate. They came to $9,200 CDN but measure extremely well, and are the 3rd best speakers in preference ratings under $35,000 US; only behind Kef Blade 1's and 2's.
The integrated amp is overkill, but the build and sound quality is very high, and at 48 years old, I have no doubt that the Michi X3 S2 will last for at least 20 years. The built in ES9028PRO dac is also excellent.
And I use a Wiim pro plus as a streamer and for PEQ.
I also built my final headphone system, also after much researching and listening.
It's another Wiim pro plus, into a Bryston bha-1 headphone amp, with a balanced cable out to either HD600's for late movies, or ZMF Auteur Classic's for music.
The Auteur's are like super HD600's, that are just a bit better in every way, but the weight makes them more suitable for shorter music listening sessions. I use a little EQ for the headphones as well. I use a second Pro Plus for the headphone system, in case I ever want to use it in a different room.
 
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This might be the tricky part. As @Smartplug already said you probably see a massive boost in the lowest bass when you look at your PEQ filters. Some advocate against any form of boost in the correction, because "dips cannot be corrected for". However, down below 40 Hz we're probably not talking about dips due to room modes or speaker boundary interference response (unless you're living in a very large room). Extending the lower limit of room correction that much to lower frequencies will simply push your speakers harder to extend their frequency response.

This alone has it's pitfalls. Boost in EQ might lead to clipping in the digital domain unless the volume limit is reduced (I still need to investigate further in this issue). Your power amp section will have to work much harder (boosting the SPL by 10 dB requires 10 times the amplifier power at the boosted frequency!). Finally the excursion of your speaker cones will increase an thermal stress on voice coils and crossover components will increase. In short, you can gain more bass extension but always at the price of reduced maximum loudness.

Finally, it is also not too unlikely that your microphone (which one?) doesn't even measure frequencies below 40 Hz correctly. If the mic just registers a lower SPL than actually present, the WiiM room correction will wrongly assume it needs to apply boost. The result is simply an overemphasised bass.

As long as you are happy with the result (and you are aware of the fact that you're getting closer to the power limits of your amp and speakers) everything is fine. Just make sure to ask yourself it what you here now is really more natural or just more pleasing (many of us are simply more happy with more bass ;) ). Even if your answer is the latter it's still fine if you like it better that way.
After the bump, I ran the entire three series again today. Last night, I was listening to "Time" by Pink Floyd and it was like nothing I had ever heard before. I have special monoblock tube amps and they are not all that powerful but the output was smooth and better than ever. It just pumped into the recapped McIntosh LS340 speakers like I've never heard previous. I was quite awestruck to be honest.

I used an external Shure microphone attached to an iPad and that does a very good job. It's not only the bottom end but a fullness and richness from top to bottom that caught my attention. Loudness is not an issue. I have a meter as I listen and try to keep it under 90db but with this system, there'a more than a fair amount of spiking around in the numbers.

Can't speak to the Shure mic's accruacy only that it's a quality product and the results are superb. So, I'm happy to hear my system at its ultimate best (to date).
 
This might be the tricky part. As @Smartplug already said you probably see a massive boost in the lowest bass when you look at your PEQ filters. Some advocate against any form of boost in the correction, because "dips cannot be corrected for". However, down below 40 Hz we're probably not talking about dips due to room modes or speaker boundary interference response (unless you're living in a very large room). Extending the lower limit of room correction that much to lower frequencies will simply push your speakers harder to extend their frequency response.

This alone has it's pitfalls. Boost in EQ might lead to clipping in the digital domain unless the volume limit is reduced (I still need to investigate further in this issue). Your power amp section will have to work much harder (boosting the SPL by 10 dB requires 10 times the amplifier power at the boosted frequency!). Finally the excursion of your speaker cones will increase an thermal stress on voice coils and crossover components will increase. In short, you can gain more bass extension but always at the price of reduced maximum loudness.

Finally, it is also not too unlikely that your microphone (which one?) doesn't even measure frequencies below 40 Hz correctly. If the mic just registers a lower SPL than actually present, the WiiM room correction will wrongly assume it needs to apply boost. The result is simply an overemphasised bass.

As long as you are happy with the result (and you are aware of the fact that you're getting closer to the power limits of your amp and speakers) everything is fine. Just make sure to ask yourself it what you here now is really more natural or just more pleasing (many of us are simply more happy with more bass ;) ). Even if your answer is the latter it's still fine if you like it better that way.
Has anybody been able to determine at what point digital clipping kicks in?
 
Has anybody been able to determine at what point digital clipping kicks in?
Surely that depends on your PEQ settings and the music you’re playing and probably other factors that those more knowledgeable will expand upon.

But in order to minimise digital clipping you should sett a volume limit as advised in this and surrounding comments
Post in thread 'PEQ talk'
https://forum.wiimhome.com/threads/peq-talk.1500/post-27061
 
So, I did the R & L RC to very good results and also the beta three tests in a row.

Then tonight, I noted earlier in this thread about the "Equalize Freq." in Room Correction.

First went down from 40 to 28Hz. Wow, that was really nice. Great improvement in the lower end.
Then dropped it all the way down to 20Hz.

Wow, absolutely superb and great improvement beyond any expectation. My speakers were rated down to 40K but there was recapping done and that was a big improvement too. Thanks so much WiiM, unreal.
There’s no point using full 20 to 20khz if your speakers are not rated to go down that low. When you run rc and your lowest your speaker can go let say 50 you will see massive boost below that range which you don’t want to do. It will lead clipping especially in bass region and potential woofer damage. If you seek to go that low what I would suggest add a sub that rated to go that low. Typical 7 inch woofer even multiple array would not necessary go to 20. What it does it increase dynamic range and lower distortion. It also fill larger room over single woofer.
 
Surely that depends on your PEQ settings and the music you’re playing and probably other factors that those more knowledgeable will expand upon.

But in order to minimise digital clipping you should sett a volume limit as advised in this and surrounding comments
Post in thread 'PEQ talk'
https://forum.wiimhome.com/threads/peq-talk.1500/post-27061
Yes I have always set my dac to -3 db to allow for headroom. Anyhow the digital volume management of the wiim ultra surpasses my dac so I have the max volume at 95 for the same amount of attenuation. I am aware that depending on the music the volume will be boosted or will have more headroom (volume wars and mastering for streaming apps) but I was wondering if one of you guys were able to have a reference number, 4db, 6db, 10db or whatsoever
 
There’s no point using full 20 to 20khz if your speakers are not rated to go down that low. When you run rc and your lowest your speaker can go let say 50 you will see massive boost below that range which you don’t want to do. It will lead clipping especially in bass region and potential woofer damage. If you seek to go that low what I would suggest add a sub that rated to go that low. Typical 7 inch woofer even multiple array would not necessary go to 20. What it does it increase dynamic range and lower distortion. It also fill larger room over single woofer.
At one time, I had NHT Xd subwoofers running. They generated a lot of bass in the room. More than I'd ever need. 🐴
Contemplated the speaker rating but after removing and replacing the crossovers and replacing all the electrolytics among others, I've convinced myself they can run at 20.

From my listening, I'm not seeing any issues nor strain. Maybe I'll consider going back up to 28.

Thank you for your thoughtful analysis here.
 
At one time, I had NHT Xd subwoofers running. They generated a lot of bass in the room. More than I'd ever need. 🐴
Contemplated the speaker rating but after removing and replacing the crossovers and replacing all the electrolytics among others, I've convinced myself they can run at 20.

From my listening, I'm not seeing any issues nor strain. Maybe I'll consider going back up to 28.

Thank you for your thoughtful analysis here.
Be careful on every 3db increase as it double the power. If you’re listening at conversation level it may not be an issue. In my case since my amp has enough juice to power up even at 1 ohm it would blow up the woofer not because clipping but going over to their rated power of factor of 3.
 
Be careful on every 3db increase as it double the power. If you’re listening at conversation level it may not be an issue. In my case since my amp has enough juice to power up even at 1 ohm it would blow up the woofer not because clipping but going over to their rated power of factor of 3.
Appreciate your reply here, Smartplug. I'm going to say some things and hopefully not offend anyone. First, I've tested my WiiM Pro against different scenarios many times. Using a direct Mac Mini running Qobuz or a M1 Macbook Air running Audirvana, Roon or Qobuz via Chromecast and direct. The WiiM was usually very good but a hair below.

My system consists of some unique rebuilt tube amps based on an old design with a RME ADI-2 DAC connected to an upgraded Schiit nto old but recapped crossovers: McIntosh LS340 floor standers with an original Schiit Saga (Jantzen Audio 2.2uF 800V Superior Z-Cap Crossover Capacitor). Jimminy Crickets, Batman, those caps are crazy good in there.

Have a digital fiber router into a pair of Cisco Meraki switches using Blue Jeans ethernet cables to the WiiM Pro which also has an external 5v power supply connected via glass toslink to the RME DAC. It's absolutely splendid.

Over the weekend, I played "Time" by Pink Floyd. Not my favorite track but it was stunning. Played it somewhat over 90db and it was crips and lively, almost had me fall off the chair. It was scary how powerful it sounded with all the detail, clarity and musicality. The double woofers were put to the test. I turned it down to spare their lives.

Everything sounds pretty amazing and even albums I only liked a track or two now have so much more depth and excitement. I think this combo system will be okays as I run the RME ADI-2 at -4 db and managed the volume from the Schiit pre.

What WiiM has done is somewhat astounding in the usually overhyped audiophile world. I'm sure there's other streamers that may be slightly better but this is one of those audio markers in the road that is a game changer. Thanks again to WiiM for taking us on this journey.
 
Appreciate your reply here, Smartplug. I'm going to say some things and hopefully not offend anyone. First, I've tested my WiiM Pro against different scenarios many times. Using a direct Mac Mini running Qobuz or a M1 Macbook Air running Audirvana, Roon or Qobuz via Chromecast and direct. The WiiM was usually very good but a hair below.

My system consists of some unique rebuilt tube amps based on an old design with a RME ADI-2 DAC connected to an upgraded Schiit nto old but recapped crossovers: McIntosh LS340 floor standers with an original Schiit Saga (Jantzen Audio 2.2uF 800V Superior Z-Cap Crossover Capacitor). Jimminy Crickets, Batman, those caps are crazy good in there.

Have a digital fiber router into a pair of Cisco Meraki switches using Blue Jeans ethernet cables to the WiiM Pro which also has an external 5v power supply connected via glass toslink to the RME DAC. It's absolutely splendid.

Over the weekend, I played "Time" by Pink Floyd. Not my favorite track but it was stunning. Played it somewhat over 90db and it was crips and lively, almost had me fall off the chair. It was scary how powerful it sounded with all the detail, clarity and musicality. The double woofers were put to the test. I turned it down to spare their lives.

Everything sounds pretty amazing and even albums I only liked a track or two now have so much more depth and excitement. I think this combo system will be okays as I run the RME ADI-2 at -4 db and managed the volume from the Schiit pre.

What WiiM has done is somewhat astounding in the usually overhyped audiophile world. I'm sure there's other streamers that may be slightly better but this is one of those audio markers in the road that is a game changer. Thanks again to WiiM for taking us on this journey.
You should feel at least mostly safe posting this sort of thing here. It’s the WiiM forum, not Audio Science Review. 😂

-Ed
 
I am very happy with the wiim ultra, the software is different from eversolo, different philosophies in the menu, a question of habits, but the qobuz app of the wiim is better made for me, easy booklet download, but I have to go deeper, for the microphone, unfortunately the dayton 6c is not available on amazon, in my country neither, it marks mid-February as availability, there is the 6 smooth on amazon, with the jack, better to wait to see which microphones will be supported best in the next updates? or are there valid alternatives in the price range? ty
 
You should feel at least mostly safe posting this sort of thing here. It’s the WiiM forum, not Audio Science Review. 😂

-Ed
I’m not a member from there but I would assume if you bring a topic that would alter the original source via room correction would get you into warm reception. Those users in there were all about measurement. If you compare on same manufacturer of dac between their mid line vs their top tier on measurement they look identical specs but they won’t sound same even having ruler flat, high sinad and thd+noise. If that was the case why dac factory would have multiple line of dac if they sound identical? I have multiple dacs the higher cost provide deeper soundstage and decay that last longer. None of this matter if your ear is in bad shape.
 
I’m not a member from there but I would assume if you bring a topic that would alter the original source via room correction would get you into warm reception. Those users in there were all about measurement. If you compare on same manufacturer of dac between their mid line vs their top tier on measurement they look identical specs but they won’t sound same even having ruler flat, high sinad and thd+noise. If that was the case why dac factory would have multiple line of dac if they sound identical? I have multiple dacs the higher cost provide deeper soundstage and decay that last longer. None of this matter if your ear is in bad shape.
ASR people have perfectly fine ears, they just don’t use them. They’ll die by the mic before they allow their hearing to affect their judgement. As far as they are concerned, if it measures well, it sounds good and that’s enough/that’s it.

I’m not like that. One look at my choice of DAC in my signature should be proof of that.

It must sound good first, and if it measures well then that simply reinforces what I’m hearing to be true.

-Ed
 
If you compare on same manufacturer of dac between their mid line vs their top tier on measurement they look identical specs but they won’t sound same even having ruler flat, high sinad and thd+noise. If that was the case why dac factory would have multiple line of dac if they sound identical?
I bet they make more profit on the more expensive ones 😃
 
Bro I’m active as heck over there but I NEVER feel safe!

Never let them know your next move!!!

-Ed
Stopped going there a while maybe years back. Amir’s boys run amok attacking anyone who doesn’t bend the knee and then censor. I fought those tools on a minor issue on an RME firmware upgrade. RME made an appearance saying no sound impact which meant the improvement was solely due to using a different USB port on a Mac Mini. That’s a known factor but Amir’s censorship-loving louts insisted I publish measurements. Ludicrous! I told them where they can stick their censorship too.

Some audiophiles will remember when everyone thought total harmonic distortion (THD) was all the rage.
As the great Mike Moffat of Schiit Audio said of measurements, ‘Measures great, sounds like schiit.’ No thanks.

Own an original Schiit Audio pre and I upgraded the caps. Measured both the active and passive buffer. Wouldn’t you know it, the active measured gloriously but both sound great. 👍🏽
 
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