Budget Subwoofer Vs No Subwoofer

[rccarguy]

Again, I don't know why you're quoting me and talking about Rel subs because I've not said anything about them.

Are you using high level or low level to the Rel?

My point is don't bother with cheap subs, £100 etc will just make the system sound worse. Save up for a better one.

 

[DazST]

Again, I'm not using a Rel. Do you even read posts before you reply?
And you're wrong that cheap subs will always make a system sound worse

 

[bukzin]

Room EQ can't polish a turd

But it can make some improvement,
IF you use a light touch. Over EQing is a common error.

 

[rccarguy]

But it can make some improvement,
IF you use a light touch. Over EQing is a common error.

It can't fix a low quality sub. I've owned a couple of subs, worst was a Yamaha. Boomy, slow lumpy what a mess. EQ didn't fix it

 

[CliffyBC]

I read this topic to get info on buying a new sub myself, but unfortunately I can't say the answers helped me one bit. Why do these discussions invariably end up with people so far apart that they end up bickering?
I guess everyone thinks they're an expert and correct and everyone else is wrong? Bit like society as a whole I guess?
Ah well, I'll carry on looking.

 

[gazza1101]

I think a sub can contribute to just about any speaker if integrated correctly, why not buy a better sub secondhand?

 

[DazST]

I read this topic to get info on buying a new sub myself, but unfortunately I can't say the answers helped me one bit. Why do these discussions invariably end up with people so far apart that they end up bickering?
I guess everyone thinks they're an expert and correct and everyone else is wrong? Bit like society as a whole I guess?
Ah well, I'll carry on looking.

Well, the OP asked a question about a specific sub (edifier T5s) and I shared my opinion, which is based on actual experience with that sub running through my wiim.
I get your point though, it's frustrating when other posters make blanket statements without any direct experience, respond without actually reading posts, and essentially just end up saying "spend more money" rather than accepting that some people have fixed budgets and are looking for the best options within that budget.

 

[DazST]

I think a sub can contribute to just about any speaker if integrated correctly, why not buy a better sub secondhand?

I've been in this situation myself, but the 2nd hand sub market is very variable depending on what country and region you live in. For example, here in Australia we have fewer brands to begin with, and because of weight/shipping costs, 2nd hand subs tend to be "pick up only" which is problematic if you're not located close to where the sellers are.

 

[rccarguy]

Well, the OP asked a question about a specific sub (edifier T5s) and I shared my opinion, which is based on actual experience with that sub running through my wiim.
I get your point though, it's frustrating when other posters make blanket statements without any direct experience, respond without actually reading posts, and essentially just end up saying "spend more money" rather than accepting that some people have fixed budgets and are looking for the best options within that budget.

8" ported sub in a small cabinet?

It'll be a boom box.

Best to seal that port convert to to sealed box

 

[DazST]

8" ported sub in a small cabinet?

It'll be a boom box.

Best to seal that port convert to to sealed box

Except it isn't. You're just making a generalised assumption based on whatever vague experience you claim to have with "cheap subs". I've just spent the whole day happily listening to mine, which has, despite your dismissive responses, been very easy to integrate into my system and has improved it considerably.

 

[rccarguy]

Except it isn't. You're just making a generalised assumption based on whatever vague experience you claim to have with "cheap subs". I've just spent the whole day happily listening to mine, which has, despite your dismissive responses, been very easy to integrate into my system and has improved it considerably.

It's based on physics. Happy you think you live in a reality that defies those laws.

It'll be ported at a high frequency, have poor frequency response, and the port tune will be high to the point of not being lower response than a decent pair of floorstanding speakers.

 

[DazST]

It's based on physics. Happy you think you live in a reality that defies those laws.

It'll be ported at a high frequency, have poor frequency response, and the port tune will be high to the point of not being lower response than a decent pair of floorstanding speakers.

Subjective experience in actually existing conditions is also a real phenomena. And more relevant to the OPs question than your generic point about "physics". Nobody is claiming that a small 8" sub will play deep sub bass. I certainly didn't have that expectation when I bought by T5s and I'll bet the OP doesn't expect that either.
And you're shifting the goalposts again by talking about floorstanding speakers when the discussion here has been about adding a sub to compliment a bookshelf speaker system in a small room. Try to stay on topic like the rest of us.

 

[harkpabst]

@cluster, I've had good results even with low spec subwoofers, when integrated with WiiM subwoofer management and tamed by RoomFit. This includes subjective listening experience as well as objective measurements.

I cannot say anything about the T5s and personally I would rather look for a sub with no integrated DSP functions. A DSP is not needed with any WiiM amplifier and the little money available should rather be spent on more fundamental things.

There's nothing wrong with tweaking and tuning a budget sub. This includes (partly) stuffing any existing vents, of course. Just don't make anybody believe you that closing the vent on a ported sub always makes it "better". That's simply not the case.

Also don't even think about connecting a sub "the REL way" by connecting the amplifier's speaker outputs to high level inputs of the sub. This is vastly inferior to using the sub out. When using WiiM's subwoofer management, the main speakers are relieved from outputting bass below the crossover frequency. For the mid-woofer in your Diamond 220s this means less heat, less cone excursion and thus less distortion. Should you feel that there is too little bass output, this can be fixed by proper setup of the crossover frequency, the phase switch, latency sync, sub level, RoomFit and finally custom EQ. You'll be getting tons of support on these issues in this forum.

If you happen to live in the UK and can afford something like the BK Electronics P10-150-GEM, that would be a good option.

P10-150-GEM

bkelectronics.co.uk

You might be able to pick up a second hand unit of its predecessor, the Gemini or Gemini II:

Gemini

The availability of budget subs differs quite a bit depending on where you live on this planet, so I won't mention further products for now. But the bottom line is that even a cheap sub when set up correctly and maybe tweaked a little bit can usually improve the sound of small bookshelf speakers in your room.

 

[hipoagumol]

8" ported sub is my Dali C-8 D and it is not a boombox at all.

Actually not being a boombox is their marketing statement, and reviews confirm it. It is a very detailed concise sub. I

"The DALI SUB C-8 D subwoofer has been engineered to perform equally well with both music and movies. Featuring a powerful, detailed 8" down-firing woofer, the SUB C-8 D is anything but a boombox."

https://www.dali-speakers.com/en/products/subwoofers/sub-c-8-d/

My use case is a bit different than the original post, but i do think a well integrated sub (even if not 10-12" and not necessarily very expensive) will improve a bass limited bookshelves.

I do have floorstanders Q Acoustics 3050i already reach low frequencies (44Hz on paper, in my room even lower close to walls).
I am using the subwoofer not to get to 20Hz and hit my chest while watching movies, but mainly for music and to mitigate my room response issues: Very asymmetrical L/R response and deep nulls in the 100hz range, so i am crossing it at relatively high freq-
After little time using it and with not much work on integration I do also feel /hear/measure that the combination goes much deeper than only the floor standers did and everything feels fuller, while keeping the bass response with Roomfit aligned to B&K curve, not creating any "boombox" at all.

Regards

 

[cluster]

@cluster, I've had good results even with low spec subwoofers, when integrated with WiiM subwoofer management and tamed by RoomFit. This includes subjective listening experience as well as objective measurements.

I cannot say anything about the T5s and personally I would rather look for a sub with no integrated DSP functions. A DSP is not needed with any WiiM amplifier and the little money available should rather be spent on more fundamental things.

There's nothing wrong with tweaking and tuning a budget sub. This includes (partly) stuffing any existing vents, of course. Just don't make anybody believe you that closing the vent on a ported sub always makes it "better". That's simply not the case.

Also don't even think about connecting a sub "the REL way" by connecting the amplifier's speaker outputs to high level inputs of the sub. This is vastly inferior to using the sub out. When using WiiM's subwoofer management, the main speakers are relieved from outputting bass below the crossover frequency. For the mid-woofer in your Diamond 220s this means less heat, less cone excursion and thus less distortion. Should you feel that there is too little bass output, this can be fixed by proper setup of the crossover frequency, the phase switch, latency sync, sub level, RoomFit and finally custom EQ. You'll be getting tons of support on these issues in this forum.

If you happen to live in the UK and can afford something like the BK Electronics P10-150-GEM, that would be a good option.

P10-150-GEM

bkelectronics.co.uk

You might be able to pick up a second hand unit of its predecessor, the Gemini or Gemini II:

Gemini

The availability of budget subs differs quite a bit depending on where you live on this planet, so I won't mention further products for now. But the bottom line is that even a cheap sub when set up correctly and maybe tweaked a little bit can usually improve the sound of small bookshelf speakers in your room.

Thanks for the advice, I am in UK so will look into the BK Electronics P10-150-GEM.

 

[Skull]

I am using an old Boston sub that was used with mini cubes back in the day for an old 5.1 system
My system is a quad vena 2 amp with 2 quad s2 speakers and the 20ish year old Boston sub
Just used for music and they work well together and saved me money using old tech

 

[rccarguy]

8" ported sub is my Dali C-8 D and it is not a boombox at all.

Actually not being a boombox is their marketing statement, and reviews confirm it. It is a very detailed concise sub. I

"The DALI SUB C-8 D subwoofer has been engineered to perform equally well with both music and movies. Featuring a powerful, detailed 8" down-firing woofer, the SUB C-8 D is anything but a boombox."

https://www.dali-speakers.com/en/products/subwoofers/sub-c-8-d/

My use case is a bit different than the original post, but i do think a well integrated sub (even if not 10-12" and not necessarily very expensive) will improve a bass limited bookshelves.

I do have floorstanders Q Acoustics 3050i already reach low frequencies (44Hz on paper, in my room even lower close to walls).
I am using the subwoofer not to get to 20Hz and hit my chest while watching movies, but mainly for music and to mitigate my room response issues: Very asymmetrical L/R response and deep nulls in the 100hz range, so i am crossing it at relatively high freq-
After little time using it and with not much work on integration I do also feel /hear/measure that the combination goes much deeper than only the floor standers did and everything feels fuller, while keeping the bass response with Roomfit aligned to B&K curve, not creating any "boombox" at all.

Regards

Q Acoustics use -6db figure, so it's not 44hz. It's probably closer to 50hz. Although room will aid in low bass.