How to think about room correction settings like frequency range and gain?

[Aziraphale]

Which target curve is that? So steady drop on high frequencies...

It's the B&K curve.

 

[dominikz]

@dominikz Here's the screenshot of my measurements. I pointed the mic at each speaker and the sub is now postioned in the left corner of the room. I use an iMM-6c for the measurements.

View attachment 28128

From a glance there seems to be a few main issues:

• Left and right channel responses <<80Hz should be almost identical given that you have a mono sub, but the left channel has much less level at 30Hz than the right one. Does your sub have auto-standby functionality, and was it in standby state when you started RoomFit? That might explain the difference, given that left channel is measured first. In general I'd suggest to make sure that the subwoofer in out of standby when starting RoomFit to avoid these kinds of issues.
• The right channel shows pretty wide and severe interference dip around the crossover region. It is strange to see so different behaviour between the two channels.

A few more questions:

1. Have you loaded the iMM-6c mic calibration file in RoomFit setting?
2. Are the main speakers symmetrically placed in the room (i.e. identical distances to adjoining walls and to the main listening position)?
3. Are both main speakers wired with correct polarity? The issue with right speaker might happen if it was wired in opposite polarity compared to left one.
4. Can you share screenshots of your subwoofer menu settings (including sync delay values) and RoomFit menu settings?

I'd suggest to measure both channel with the mic at the exact same position (main listening position), you can just point the mic to the center point between both speakers.
Also, change the correction range to 30Hz-200Hz in RoomFit setting, and then re-run RoomFit.

 

[SKApretto71]

It's the B&K curve.

It has that shape, I was misleaded probably by the horizontal scale as appeared to mee to have too wide gap from low to high frequencies in respect to other visualizations I saw of same curve, so I recalled it to be more near to a flat one.

 

[Aziraphale]

From a glance there seems to be a few main issues:

• Left and right channel responses <<80Hz should be almost identical given that you have a mono sub, but the left channel has much less level at 30Hz than the right one. Does your sub have auto-standby functionality, and was it in standby state when you started RoomFit? That might explain the difference, given that left channel is measured first. In general I'd suggest to make sure that the subwoofer in out of standby when starting RoomFit to avoid these kinds of issues.
• The right channel shows pretty wide and severe interference dip around the crossover region. It is strange to see so different behaviour between the two channels.

A few more questions:

1. Have you loaded the iMM-6c mic calibration file in RoomFit setting?
2. Are the main speakers symmetrically placed in the room (i.e. identical distances to adjoining walls and to the main listening position)?
3. Are both main speakers wired with correct polarity? The issue with right speaker might happen if it was wired in opposite polarity compared to left one.
4. Can you share screenshots of your subwoofer menu settings (including sync delay values) and RoomFit menu settings?

I'd suggest to measure both channel with the mic at the exact same position (main listening position), you can just point the mic to the center point between both speakers.
Also, change the correction range to 30Hz-200Hz in RoomFit setting, and then re-run RoomFit.

Thanks for looking at them! My sub is not on standby, but if you look at the picture I inserted below, I guess the curtain might be an issue?

As for you other questions:

1. Yes
2. They are now symetrical to the walls to the left and right and also to my listening position. In the earlier measurements they were not symetrical to the walls, but they were to my position.
3. Yes, I just checked again.
4. My sub doesn't have a menu, only physical knobs. I can set frequency (now at +/-70Hz), gain (now at 50%) and phase (now at 0).

I have attached screenshots of my RoomFit settings, right after my measurements and the final RoomFit results and a picture of where my sub is now. Hope this helps.

 

[dominikz]

It has that shape, I was misleaded probably by the horizontal scale as appeared to mee to have too wide gap from low to high frequencies in respect to other visualizations I saw of same curve, so I recalled it to be more near to a flat one.

The variable vertical scale in RoomFit graphs can indeed be quite misleading.
However, it looks like this may be improved in the future: link to post.

 

[dominikz]

Thanks for looking at them! My sub is not on standby, but if you look at the picture I inserted below, I guess the curtain might be an issue?

As for you other questions:

1. Yes
2. They are now symetrical to the walls to the left and right and also to my listening position. In the earlier measurements they were not symetrical to the walls, but they were to my position.
3. Yes, I just checked again.
4. My sub doesn't have a menu, only physical knobs. I can set frequency (now at +/-70Hz), gain (now at 50%) and phase (now at 0).

I have attached screenshots of my RoomFit settings, right after my measurements and the final RoomFit results and a picture of where my sub is now. Hope this helps.

This attempt looks much better than the previous one!
The vertical scale is only 20dB (instead of the more common 40dB scale) so the deviations look more severe than they really are.

How does it sound to you now?

Also, are you high-passing the mains (and how)?
How are the sub and the mains connected to the Pro?

EDIT: The curtain is definitely not an issue for the sub.

 

[Aziraphale]

This attempt looks much better than the previous one!
The vertical scale is only 20dB (instead of the more common 40dB scale) so the deviations look more severe than they really are.

How does it sound to you now?

Also, are you high-passing the mains (and how)?
How are the sub and the mains connected to the Pro?

EDIT: The curtain is definitely not an issue for the sub.

That's good to hear! It sounds very good to me, so I think I'll leave it at this, unless you've got some more tips. Is the 20dB scale a Wiim thing or something that I need to set?

My setup and connections are as follows:

- Wiim Pro connected via the optical connectors to my Cambridge Audio CXC CD transport and my Cambridge Audio CXA60 amplifier
- Fyne F500 speakers connected to the CXA60
- BK XLS200 MKii subwoofer connected to the same speaker terminals as the Fynes. It's a high-level connection with a Speak-On connector on the subwoofer.

If there's anything I can improve, please let me know!

 

[dominikz]

Is the 20dB scale a Wiim thing or something that I need to set?

It is a WiiM thing, nothing we can influence, I'm afraid.

- Wiim Pro connected via the optical connectors to my Cambridge Audio CXC CD transport and my Cambridge Audio CXA60 amplifier
- Fyne F500 speakers connected to the CXA60
- BK XLS200 MKii subwoofer connected to the same speaker terminals as the Fynes. It's a high-level connection with a Speak-On connector on the subwoofer.

If there's anything I can improve, please let me know!

You could try to set the subwoofer low-pass frequency to around 45-50Hz (LFX of your speakers) and see if that results in any further improvement.
E.g. the narrow dip at about 55Hz is likely caused by destructive interference between the sub and speakers.
Just remember to re-run RoomFit after any change.
Apart from that I don't see much else to try - and especially if you're already happy with the sound!

 

[Aziraphale]

It is a WiiM thing, nothing we can influence, I'm afraid.

You could try to set the subwoofer low-pass frequency to around 45-50Hz (LFX of your speakers) and see if that results in any further improvement.
E.g. the narrow dip at about 55Hz is likely caused by destructive interference between the sub and speakers.
Just remember to re-run RoomFit after any change.
Apart from that I don't see much else to try - and especially if you're already happy with the sound!

I will definitely try that!

I had read somewhere that I should set the frequency of the sub somewhat higher than the lowest of my speakers (which is, indeed, 45Hz at -6dB), which is why I put it at around 70Hz. I did feel that the bass became a bit muddy/whoomy with some music, though, if you get what I mean. But it sounds much more logical to let the sub take over at the point where the speakers stop.

I'll try it tomorrow and report back here!

 

[Aziraphale]

@dominikz I tried again, with the sub between 45 and 50Hz. Below are the results, but the downside is that I had to disable the non-boost mode for it to work. What do you think about this?

 

[slartibartfast]

@dominikz I tried again, with the sub between 45 and 50Hz. Below are the results, but the downside is that I had to disable the non-boost mode for it to work. What do you think about this?

What have you done to the sub? There is very little output under 50Hz.

 

[Aziraphale]

What have you done to the sub? There is very little output under 50Hz.

I turned it down to between 45 and 50Hz and then set roomfit to 30-200Hz, as @dominikz recommended. I was kind of amazed myself that RoomFit gave me an error, saying that I had to turn non-boost off as it could not function otherwise.

There is always the question, of course, of whether I really set it to 45-50Hz. Below is a picture of my frequency scale and it is now set to the first marking after 40Hz.

 

[slartibartfast]

I turned it down to between 45 and 50Hz and then set roomfit to 30-200Hz, as @dominikz recommended. I was kind of amazed myself that RoomFit gave me an error, saying that I had to turn non-boost off as it could not function otherwise.

There is always the question, of course, of whether I really set it to 45-50Hz. Below is a picture of my frequency scale and it is now set to the first marking after 40Hz.

You could try increasing the sub volume so RoomFit doesn't need to boost as much.

 

[Aziraphale]

You could try increasing the sub volume so RoomFit doesn't need to boost as much.

Better like this? It could tune with non-boost now.

 

[dominikz]

Better like this? It could tune with non-boost now.

This looks a little better to me, yes.
Do you perceive any improvement?

Left channel looks better than the right one though - I'd perhaps try to decrease the crossover frequency just a little bit more to see if that helps any with the right channel.

 

[slartibartfast]

Better like this? It could tune with non-boost now.

That looks better, the left channel is better than the right. How does it sound?

 

[Aziraphale]

@dominikz @slartibartfast It sounds good but where should I be looking in the graph to improve this right channel? When listening I do get the idea that the soundscape is pulling a very tiny bit towards the left.

The sub volume was at 50% for this measurement, by the way. What should I be aiming at for the frequency? 40Hz? Or try to really nail the 45?

 

[slartibartfast]

@dominikz @slartibartfast It sounds good but where should I be looking in the graph to improve this right channel? When listening I do get the idea that the soundscape is pulling a very tiny bit towards the left.

The sub volume was at 50% for this measurement, by the way. What should I be aiming at for the frequency? 40Hz? Or try to really nail the 45?

What does the response look like without the sub? I wonder what is causing that big dip at 100Hz.

 

[Aziraphale]

I really don't know what causes it but without the sub tuning with non-boost is impossible again. Below is a measurement with a slightly lower frequency on the sub.

 

[slartibartfast]

I really don't know what causes it but without the sub tuning with non-boost is impossible again. Below is a measurement with a slightly lower frequency on the sub.

The dip near 50Hz looks better. Have you tried playing with the phase control on the sub?