Introducing WiiM Amp Pro

[harkpabst]

Thank you. I'll take a closer look at how to use the DAC, although it also goes into standby for me with Coax, I don't think this should be set per output..

Wrong thread?

 

[biil]

People trying to justify this device dropping the Airplay feature
It's a dealbreaker.
I'd sooner buy a car that didn't have Carplay. (and that would be never)

 

[Wiimer]

People trying to justify this device dropping the Airplay feature
It's a dealbreaker.
I'd sooner buy a car that didn't have Carplay. (and that would be never)

Who is justifying this?

How can they include features that are impossible to include, even if you repeatedly complain about them? If you need AirPlay, choose a device that already has it. That's all there is to it.

And I don't have Carplay in my car, nor do I need it. I have never even seen a car with built-in Carplay, although I know of car audio and car navigation systems with Carplay.

 

[Ryan]

Has the power supply been improved?

Lots of complaints of lack of current to drive big or difficult load speakers, on my Amp you can hear the Dynsmics or Bass soften when pushed to hard, so how will the Amp Pro handle 4 speakers at once, have there been any improvements made to the power supply?

 

[stemplar007]

Wrong thread?

Yes, it's bad. I asked this about the Wiim Ultra.

 

[Aquarius]

Has the power supply been improved?

Lots of complaints of lack of current to drive big or difficult load speakers, on my Amp you can hear the Dynsmics or Bass soften when pushed to hard, so how will the Amp Pro handle 4 speakers at once, have there been any improvements made to the power supply?

Even if the Amp (and Amp Pro) delivers insane value for money, they are not designes for driving speakers with difficult loads - at least not if you also want high volume levels.

You have only 2 sets of binding-posts, so its made for for 2 speakers and not 4. If you are thinking of connecting speakerwires to two speakers on each post I would not recommend that since that will be a even heavier load.

We have to be realistic when we buy products and dont expect that the Amp (or Amp Pro) will have the same current-delivery as a huge Emotiva, Parasound or McIntosh

If you need much power i would recommend a Pro or Ultra in combination with a poweramp

 

[Ryan]

Even if the Amp (and Amp Pro) delivers insane value for money, they are not designes for driving speakers with difficult loads - at least not if you also want high volume levels.

You have only 2 sets of binding-posts, so its made for for 2 speakers and not 4. If you are thinking of connecting speakerwires to two speakers on each post I would not recommend that since that will be a even heavier load.

We have to be realistic when we buy products and dont expect that the Amp (or Amp Pro) will have the same current-delivery as a huge Emotiva, Parasound or McIntosh

If you need much power i would recommend a Pro or Ultra in combination with a poweramp

Doesn't the new Amp Pro allow 4 speakers to play at once, Im sure thats what they said, so it should have 4 binding posts or am I missing something? I see the pic shows only 2 binding posts
, so what Im trying to understand is why is the new version spec able to play 4 speakers and the previous one no mention of 4 speakers use.

I'm just curious, if there is no upgrade to the power supply how will it fair driving 4 speakers even if they are an easy load.

 

[Wiimer]

Doesn't the new Amp Pro allow 4 speakers to play at once, Im sure thats what they said, so it should have 4 binding posts or am I missing something?

Where is it written?(Or where did they say so?)
I have not seen it.

 

[Ryan]

I saw it mentioned in the early release notes and on the first post in this thread it states it can run 4 speakers at once.

 

[Wiimer]

I saw it mentioned in the early release notes and on the first post in this thread it states it can run 4 speakers at once.

Sorry, I missed that. It does indeed say what you said.

@WiiM Team,.
I think this is a misleading statement and needs to be explained.

 

[Burnside]

Sorry, I missed that. It does indeed say what you said.

@WiiM Team,.
I think this is a misleading statement and needs to be explained.

See
Post in thread '4 speakers'
https://forum.wiimhome.com/threads/4-speakers.2171/post-33140

And this explanation around ohm ratings

Ohm Ratings on Speakers and Amplifiers - Figuring It Out

An entry-level primer for figuring out how to match amps and speakers, specifically concerning ohm ratings (resistance) and how multiple cabinets affect those numbers.

gollihurmusic.com

 

[fredofredo]

Has the power supply been improved?

Lots of complaints of lack of current to drive big or difficult load speakers, on my Amp you can hear the Dynsmics or Bass soften when pushed to hard, so how will the Amp Pro handle 4 speakers at once, have there been any improvements made to the power supply?

If you want to drive a difficult load you buy a muscle amp, not a $300 60 wpc Class D digital amplifier. Honestly, some people are impossible to satisfy, they want something for nothing. Do you even understand that trying to drive 4 speakers at once means you're turning 8 ohm speakers into a 4 ohm load for the amp? [ 8*8 / (8 + 8) ] = 4. And of course, 8 ohm load is just nominal for a speaker, even the tamest such speakers often and easily dip below 4 ohms, especially in the midbass and bass. [ (4*4) / (4 + 4) ] = 2. You realize that all but the beefiest, multi-thousand dollar power amps will struggle with a load like that, right? Right? No, it's like talking to a brick wall with some dummies. It's a multi-functional, high value digital device with built-in amplification that costs less than $400. Get a grip.

 

[Ryan]

But no speaker has a flat impedance, so even if they state it's 8 ohm chances are it can dip way below that so it's a bit of a trial and error to see what it can run in 4 speaker configuration.

 

[Wiimer]

See
Post in thread '4 speakers'
https://forum.wiimhome.com/threads/4-speakers.2171/post-33140

And this explanation around ohm ratings

Ohm Ratings on Speakers and Amplifiers - Figuring It Out

An entry-level primer for figuring out how to match amps and speakers, specifically concerning ohm ratings (resistance) and how multiple cabinets affect those numbers.

gollihurmusic.com

Yes, I hit the Good button on that post and then forgot I even bookmarked it. Thank you.

 

[Ryan]

If you want to drive a difficult load you buy a muscle amp, not a $300 60 wpc Class D digital amplifier. Honestly, some people are impossible to satisfy, they want something for nothing. Do you even understand that trying to drive 4 speakers at once means you're turning 8 ohm speakers into a 4 ohm load for the amp? [ 8*8 / (8 + 8) ] = 4. And of course, 8 ohm load is just nominal for a speaker, even the tamest such speakers often and easily dip below 4 ohms, especially in the midbass and bass. [ (4*4) / (4 + 4) ] = 2. You realize that all but the beefiest, multi-thousand dollar power amps will struggle with a load like that, right? Right? No, it's like talking to a brick wall with some dummies. It's a multi-functional, high value digital device with built-in amplification that costs less than $400. Get a grip.

I'm not looking to be satisfied, but the amount of complaints re power and then they still say 4 speakers are fine. Maybe someone can test it with 4 speakers and see how it fairs.

Strange how a question gets turned into some people are impossible to satisfy. Again I'm not looking for more power just clarity in what I can and can't do realistically, not just based on specs at 8 ohm, very few speakers have an impedance that stays at 8ohm across the frequency range as you clearly stated, Wiim just gave a general basic answer based on assupmtion all 4 speakers will stay at 8ohm. Just be more clear about things in the specs then.

Anyway you have such a lovely way of calling people dummies and so on so I'll just leave this chat. Good luck to anyone running 4 speakers on there Wiim Amp.

 

[slartibartfast]

I'm not looking to be satisfied, but the amount of complaints re power and then they still say 4 speakers are fine. Maybe someone can test it with 4 speakers and see how it fairs.

Strange how a question gets turned into some people are impossible to satisfy. Again I'm not looking for more power just clarity in what I can and can't do realistically, not just based on specs at 8 ohm, very few speakers have an impedance that stays at 8ohm across the frequency range as you clearly stated, Wiim just gave a general basic answer based on assupmtion all 4 speakers will stay at 8ohm. Just be more clear about things in the specs then.

Anyway you have such a lovely way of calling people dummies and so on so I'll just leave this chat. God luck to anyone running 4 speakers on thete Wiim Amp.

4 Ohm speakers also have impedance dips so I would imagine 2 pairs of 8 Ohm speakers would act in a similar way to a pair of 4 Ohm speakers. Are there many 4 Ohm speakers?

 

[guizzog31]

When will it be available for purchase? It appears as an unavailable product, although it still allows you to make the purchase.
Regards!

 

[Burnside]

When will it be available for purchase? It appears as an unavailable product, although it still allows you to make the purchase.
Regards!

As per the opening post: “ It will be first available in the US on Amazon (starting 9/25) and through other US distributors, with international availability next month.”

 

[harkpabst]

People trying to justify this device dropping the Airplay feature
It's a dealbreaker.
I'd sooner buy a car that didn't have Carplay. (and that would be never)

Me thinks, single-post-bill is nothing but a lowly troll.

Lots of complaints of lack of current to drive big or difficult load speakers, on my Amp you can hear the Dynsmics or Bass soften when pushed to hard, so how will the Amp Pro handle 4 speakers at once, have there been any improvements made to the power supply?

I cannot remember too many complaints from serious sources. I do not count in clueless Dandy Robinson or the (not at all) Scientific Audiophile. Erin had a weak moment when incorrectly applying multi-tone measurements. Other measurements indicate increased distortion at very low frequencies, the well known load dependency and decreasing power output into loads lower than 4 ohms. But you are the first real person I ever hear complaining about softened bass at high power demand. I certainly cannot hear that with my KEF LS50 at all, but I don't know your speakers, of course.

I'm just curious, if there is no upgrade to the power supply how will it fair driving 4 speakers even if they are an easy load.

Make sure to follow the link provide by @Burnside above: The "ability to drive up to 4 speakers" is not a new feature of the WiiM Amp Pro. The same has been advertised for the WiiM Amp, already. I agree that this doesn't make sense in most scenarios. The WiiM Amp Pro should deal a lot better with impedance varying over frequency, but it's unlikely that it will have a higher power reserve.

 

[Inertiaman]

I'm not looking to be satisfied, but the amount of complaints re power and then they still say 4 speakers are fine. Maybe someone can test it with 4 speakers and see how it fairs.

Strange how a question gets turned into some people are impossible to satisfy. Again I'm not looking for more power just clarity in what I can and can't do realistically, not just based on specs at 8 ohm, very few speakers have an impedance that stays at 8ohm across the frequency range as you clearly stated, Wiim just gave a general basic answer based on assupmtion all 4 speakers will stay at 8ohm. Just be more clear about things in the specs then.

Anyway you have such a lovely way of calling people dummies and so on so I'll just leave this chat. Good luck to anyone running 4 speakers on there Wiim Amp.

Wiim's answer from Dec. 2023 did not assume that all four speakers "stay at 8 ohm." Their guidance was quite clear: powering nominally 8 ohm speakers in parallel (ie, four speakers in total) is OK and should not present any problems for the Amp, essentially because a pair of nominally 8 ohm speakers in parallel is an equivalent load to a single nominal 4 ohm speaker. Powering nominally 4 ohm speakers is parallel was discouraged, because the result is a nominal 2 ohm load, which can present problems to the amp.

Its common knowledge that an "8 ohm speaker" will present load impedances below 8 ohms in portions of the frequency range, typically minimums in the 6 ohm range or even lower. Similar with 4 ohm speakers, which commonly present loads in 3.2 ohm range. Wiim is well aware of this and their "blessing" for powering four 8 ohm speakers does not presuppose that those speakers never fall below 8 ohms.

So I suggest your two take-aways be:
1) you should consider driving 4 speakers from one Amp or Amp Pro only if the speakers are relatively higher impedance eg nominal 8 ohm
2) the Amp and Amp Pro should have no meaningful differences in this regard. The PFFB circuit in the Pro mitigates frequency response variations across load impedance changes, but does not fundamentally change the ability (or inability) to drive low-impedance loads. The Amp Pro amplifier improvements (ie, PFFB) doesn't offer more power, or a larger power supply, or improved support for very low impedance loads. It simply offers lower noise and essentially load-independent frequency response.