Meet WiiM Ultra - The Digital Hub for Your Music

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staticV3 said:
@WiiM Support @WiiM Team
Out of curiosity, have you considered using Khadas' Balanced RCA connectors for the Ultra's analog outputs?


That would've been a really elegant and low profile way of implementing Single-ended and Differential analog out.

Just three of these RCA jacks at the rear would give you Single-ended Sub out, Differential Sub out (for studio subs), Single-ended Line out,
Differential Line out, and any combination of the two (SE Sub + Bal Line, Bal Sub + SE Line).

It's backwards compatible with regular RCA cables, and for those wanting Bal out, you could include a couple adapters to XLR in the box, or perhaps sell some Bal RCA->XLR cables as accessories.
Click to expand...
I think the problem might be the DAC. I have to check the data sheet but while that DAC can normally, I *think* do balanced stereo out, I wouldn't be surprised if the sub out takes the pins/resources normally used for the balanced signal. So they would need a second DAC (or a beefier one)

Just speculation at this stage ....
 
I’m going to guess that a balanced version will be along at some point.

You can always use a DAC with balanced outs. Which, if you’re very keen on the works of balanced connectors, you probably already have.
 
Right.. I really don't see the point stuffing a beefier DAC inside. I'm sure the provided one is going to be good enough for most people, probably equalling any dedicated €150 - €200 Topping, SMSL, Loxjie...

I'd rather have the flexibility to add a higher end DAC when needed instead of paying extra for balanced outs which I don't have any use for.
 
pieterv1 said:
I'd rather have the flexibility to add a higher end DAC when needed instead of paying extra for balanced outs which I don't have any use for.
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Isn't the Ultra supposed to be an elegant, one-box digital hub for all your audio devices?

Removing features to be added back in via external boxes feels kind of antithetical.

By that logic, why not remove the screen and Bluetooth capabilities and sell them as optional accessories? Not everyone has a use for them and it would reduce the Ultra's cost, that's for sure.

The great thing about balanced RCA is how (in theory) it adds minimal cost and footprint. Completely out of sight if you don't need it, but there if you do.
 
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Bluetooth is already on board of the built-in Linkplay streaming board. It's necessary to do the initial setup with your phone as well.

And making the screen optional? How exactly would that work? :)

Toslink and coax outputs are there for people who think they need a higher-end DAC with XLR. Balanced cables for a <1m interlink make no sense anyways - as long as you use decent, shielded RCA's. And we're long past the development phase for the WiiM Ultra.

Maybe take the discussion to this thread.
 
bherren said:
I think the problem might be the DAC. I have to check the data sheet but while that DAC can normally, I *think* do balanced stereo out, I wouldn't be surprised if the sub out takes the pins/resources normally used for the balanced signal. So they would need a second DAC (or a beefier one)

Just speculation at this stage ....
Click to expand...
So I'm looking at the data sheet for the 9038Q2M, and all I see here is two balanced outputs.

It's fundamentally a balanced stereo DAC. I have no idea how WiiM does the sub out, maybe they use a lower resolution mono DAC or something built into the SoC... Either that or they have a separate set of programmable filters in the analog domain but I somewhat doubt it...

This is the same thing afaik with the AKM4493SEQ in the Pro Plus. 2 channels balanced DAC.

So the DAC is balanced meaning it should be possible to get balanced outputs with a bit more electronics in the analog domain and the right connectors, but I also don't see how they do the sub out, either on the pro plus or the Ultra. I am curious...
 
bherren said:
I also don't see how they do the sub out, either on the pro plus or the Ultra. I am curious...
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Likely a second DAC chip:
onlyoneme said:
Performance is slightly similar to the Pro which shouldn't surprise, as the Amp probably uses Pro's DAC for its sub out.
Click to expand...

Btw, the only WiiM devices with Sub out are the Amp, and the upcoming Amp Pro and Ultra.

The Pro Plus has no Sub out, hence no need for a second DAC chip.
 
bherren said:
So I'm looking at the data sheet for the 9038Q2M, and all I see here is two balanced outputs.

It's fundamentally a balanced stereo DAC. I have no idea how WiiM does the sub out, maybe they use a lower resolution mono DAC or something built into the SoC... Either that or they have a separate set of programmable filters in the analog domain but I somewhat doubt it...

This is the same thing afaik with the AKM4493SEQ in the Pro Plus. 2 channels balanced DAC.

So the DAC is balanced meaning it should be possible to get balanced outputs with a bit more electronics in the analog domain and the right connectors, but I also don't see how they do the sub out, either on the pro plus or the Ultra. I am curious...
Click to expand...
https://audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?threads/wiim-amp-discussion.47096/post-1866905 has some analysis of the amp. 2 channels version of ESS9018, do there must be a separate sub DAC...
 
staticV3 said:
Likely a second DAC chip:


Btw, the only WiiM devices with Sub out are the Amp, and the upcoming Amp Pro and Ultra.

The Pro Plus has no Sub out, hence no need for a second DAC chip.
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Yeah. You don't need the best DAC for LFE...

The interesting bit though is that the DAC in the Ultra does have balanced out. So WiiM *could* reasonably easily chose to do something with this :)
 
bherren said:
Ah I missed that. Do you have a pointer ?
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Found it:

An unimaginable torture: Ultra or Amp Pro

Is sub out still controlled by the separate dac chip? No, it clearly wouldn't be. The WiiM Ultra would split the signal digitally into low and high frequency signals. The internal DAC would then decode the low frequency portion and send that to the sub out. The high frequency digital...
forum.wiimhome.com forum.wiimhome.com
 
staticV3 said:
Isn't the Ultra supposed to be an elegant, one-box digital hub for all your audio devices?

Removing features to be added back in via external boxes feels kind of antithetical.
Click to expand...

Yes…and no.

I mean yes, the WiiM is a neat, all-in-one front end: just add amp and speakers, and it does an awful lot.

And that’ll be the main market it’s aimed at, and who’ll buy it.

But the option to add your own extras doesn’t negate that, for the few who want to try.

And, after all, a device with coax, optical, Bluetooth and USB out (on top of the more usual for an all-in-one stereo RCAs out), does suggest extra boxes if you want them, doesn’t it?
 
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staticV3 said:
By that logic, why not remove the screen and Bluetooth capabilities and sell them as optional accessories? Not everyone has a use for them and it would reduce the Ultra's cost, that's for sure.
Click to expand...
I detect a slight hint of irony in these words. Nobody ever really suggested to sell the screen as an option, right? ;)

Steve Woodhouse said:
And, after all, a device with coax, optical, Bluetooth and USB out (on top of the more usual for an all-in-one stereo RCAs out), does suggest extra boxes if you want them, doesn’t it?
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You need at least one external box, no matter what you do. ;).That would be something like an active soundbar.

Many buyers will rather have three external boxes (two speakers and one power amp). That's what you need, everything else is optional.

What's wrong with improving the analogue output for those who don't intend to add a fourth box? The internal DAC should well be worth it.

I don't see balanced outputs coming with the Ultra, it's probably too close to final shipping. But it might be something for an Ultra Plus. ;)

I wasn't even aware of the existence of Khadas' Balanced RCA connectors. The question remains how much that would add to the final product price.

Brantome said:
MSK
Click to expand...
Mean Small Kustomers?

Sounds a bit like a Linn product.
 
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