Room Correction Beta firmware for WiiM Pro, Pro Plus and Amp - User Testing Experience

[canard]

I got the beta on my Pro Plus today. Similar experience to everyone else, it results in a very dull & muffled sound. In my case the speakers (Piega Classic 3 with AMT tweeter) measure with a big bump in the treble which RC tries to cut, effectively cutting all details from the music.

If I have time tomorrow I'll compare with Homecurve using a couple of different iOS devices to see if the mics are bad etc... and send a report to WiiM.

It would be interesting to figure out if those speakers are just crazy on the high end and I got used to it a comparison session with good headphones is on the agenda... It could also be that my old iPad has a toasted mic

you, everybody, should systematically specify the capture modes, phone etc. ;-)

 

[bherren]

you, everybody, should systematically specify the capture modes, phone etc. ;-)

What do you mean by 'capture mode' ? I will post curves & details when I get a bit more spare time to play hopefully tomorrow, otherwise on the weekend

 

[canard]

which model phone...?, how oriented? distance from the hp?...etc
rew? microphone? qualibration? etc
;-)
(should be systematized a little for these exchanges of feedback ;-) )

 

[bherren]

which model phone...?, how oriented? distance from the hp?...etc

Ah yes, fair. I will. This was just a quick smoke test, using an old'ish iPad, oriented vertically in front of my in my sitting position about 3 to 4m from the Piegas. But I'll be doing some more thorough testing later and compare with my partner's shinny iPhone which is much newer. I'm close to pulling the plug on buying a proper measurement mic too ...

 

[canard]

Ah yes, fair. I will. This was just a quick smoke test, using an old'ish iPad, oriented vertically in front of my in my sitting position about 3 to 4m from the Piegas. But I'll be doing some more thorough testing later and compare with my partner's shinny iPhone which is much newer. I'm close to pulling the plug on buying a proper measurement mic too ...

In my opinion, you need to be more precise between you on the models of iPad iPhone etc....
to see if there are any constants...(?)

 

[MKUltra]

I used to have some measurements of the above-mentioned Piega... Let me see if I can dig them up.

(in Spongebob tone: a few moments later)




Also this:

https://twitter.com/x/status/1652302658902937603

Oh, and this too:

https://www.piega.info/pdf/Museum_Test_Prospekte/classic3_stereoplay.pdf

...


So yes, they're very bright and what you're hearing after correction just MIGHT be better.

Sorry if the images turn up to be huge, I have a 4k monitor and I have absolutely no idea what things look like on other people's monitors.

 

[harkpabst]

I used to have some measurements of the above-mentioned Piega... Let me see if I can dig them up.

(in Spongebob tone: a few moments later)

View attachment 7000


Also this:

https://twitter.com/x/status/1652302658902937603

View attachment 7001

Oh, and this too:

https://www.piega.info/pdf/Museum_Test_Prospekte/classic3_stereoplay.pdf

View attachment 7002


...


So yes, they're very bright and what you're hearing after correction just MIGHT be better.

Sorry if the images turn up to be huge, I have a 4k monitor and I have absolutely no idea what things look like on other people's monitors.

I don't think that this is an explanation for the weird measurements we have seen so far. The Piegas might have a hot treble on axis, but I predict that @bherren will come back with totally different measurement results between HomeCurve and th current RC beta version.

 

[bherren]

I used to have some measurements of the above-mentioned Piega... Let me see if I can dig them up.

(in Spongebob tone: a few moments later)

View attachment 7000


Also this:

https://twitter.com/x/status/1652302658902937603

View attachment 7001

Oh, and this too:

https://www.piega.info/pdf/Museum_Test_Prospekte/classic3_stereoplay.pdf

View attachment 7002


...


So yes, they're very bright and what you're hearing after correction just MIGHT be better.

Sorry if the images turn up to be huge, I have a 4k monitor and I have absolutely no idea what things look like on other people's monitors.

Thanks heaps ! For some reason I didn't find any of these googling from Australia....

I'll match this with my own measurements asap ! They do sound good though, with lots of details but the treble isn't harsh... It will be interesting to see what proper correction brings.

 

[WiiM Team]

Hi, if you are currently beta testing the Room Correction firmware, please sign up to our beta platform community to share your feedback.

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Thanks!
WiiM Team

 

[bherren]

Thanks heaps ! For some reason I didn't find any of these googling from Australia....

I'll match this with my own measurements asap ! They do sound good though, with lots of details but the treble isn't harsh... It will be interesting to see what proper correction brings.

I'll send a complete report to WiiM separately but I can already see a major difference between measurements between the iPad 6th gen and the iPhone 14 pro max, both using latest iOS. Here are screenshots with housecurve, wiim give somewhat similar results but I'm running out of time to play

First is iPad. You can see the crazy treble bump. The end result is that doing the correction with the iPad results in something completely muffled and dull. With the iPhone it's better but I feel I'm still losing too much details, it's quite aggressive at fitting the target curve, maybe too much

 

[s3igell]

Hi, if you are currently beta testing the Room Correction firmware, please sign up to our beta platform community to share your feedback.

This site is unavailable

Thanks!
WiiM Team

While I can see the benefit of moving the Beta Test Participant discussion to another platform, it does cut all of us lurkers out of the loop.
Hopefully some number of participants will return periodically to the more public forum to give us updates if not the blow-by-blow report.

 

[slartibartfast]

I'll send a complete report to WiiM separately but I can already see a major difference between measurements between the iPad 6th gen and the iPhone 14 pro max, both using latest iOS. Here are screenshots with housecurve, wiim give somewhat similar results but I'm running out of time to play

First is iPad. You can see the crazy treble bump. The end result is that doing the correction with the iPad results in something completely muffled and dull. With the iPhone it's better but I feel I'm still losing too much details, it's quite aggressive at fitting the target curve, maybe too much

You could try a flatter target curve. Maybe you just don't like the Harmon curve. I tend to use flat and it certainly doesn't sound bright to me.

 

[bherren]

You could try a flatter target curve. Maybe you just don't like the Harmon curve. I tend to use flat and it certainly doesn't sound bright to me.

Yes, when I'm back (I'm away for a few days) I plan to play with Housecurve & WiiM more, try different targets etc.. I only just posted the above before I rushed out to show the crazy difference in measurements between two Apple devices.

I suspect WiiM should really consider making a calibrated mic product....

 

[slartibartfast]

Yes, when I'm back (I'm away for a few days) I plan to play with Housecurve & WiiM more, try different targets etc.. I only just posted the above before I rushed out to show the crazy difference in measurements between two Apple devices.

I suspect WiiM should really consider making a calibrated mic product....

That amuses me as the reason that room correction isn't yet available for Android is due to the variation in microphones in Android phones. It seems Apple have the same issue. The Dayton Audio mics are fairly cheap, particularly the imm6. I don't know if they can be persuaded to work with iPhones.

 

[goodmore]

I suspect WiiM should really consider making a calibrated mic product.

The rabbit hole just got deeper.

 

[Wiimer]

I think thay may be can call Dayton Audio and bundle the IMM-6C with the WIIM products?

 

[rsc1]

I'll send a complete report to WiiM separately but I can already see a major difference between measurements between the iPad 6th gen and the iPhone 14 pro max, both using latest iOS. Here are screenshots with housecurve, wiim give somewhat similar results but I'm running out of time to play

First is iPad. You can see the crazy treble bump. The end result is that doing the correction with the iPad results in something completely muffled and dull. With the iPhone it's better but I feel I'm still losing too much details, it's quite aggressive at fitting the target curve, maybe too much

What do you mean by it's aggressive? From your 2nd measurement it looks like the treble is pretty close to the target curve so there shouldn't be much correction going on at all - if anything it should be boosting the 9kHz-13kHz region a bit. Also, make sure you do at least 5 sweeps, 1 is definitely not enough for consistent results.

You could try a flatter target curve. Maybe you just don't like the Harmon curve. I tend to use flat and it certainly doesn't sound bright to me.

This looks like the B&K curve, the Harman curve has a linear downsloping trend. You use a flat line, as in no downward slope at all? That would sound insanely bright to me.

 

[slartibartfast]

What do you mean by it's aggressive? From your 2nd measurement it looks like the treble is pretty close to the target curve so there shouldn't be much correction going on at all - if anything it should be boosting the 9kHz-13kHz region a bit. Also, make sure you do at least 5 sweeps, 1 is definitely not enough for consistent results.

This looks like the B&K curve, the Harman curve has a linear downsloping trend. You use a flat line, as in no downward slope at all? That would sound insanely bright to me.

It honestly doesn't sound bright at any volume. Before the Harman curve did everyone have bleeding ears from listening to their flat systems? . What happens if the studio also uses a Harman curve at mastering time? You would end up with cascaded Harman curves in your listening room.

 

[bherren]

What do you mean by it's aggressive? From your 2nd measurement it looks like the treble is pretty close to the target curve so there shouldn't be much correction going on at all - if anything it should be boosting the 9kHz-13kHz region a bit. Also, make sure you do at least 5 sweeps, 1 is definitely not enough for consistent results.

This looks like the B&K curve, the Harman curve has a linear downsloping trend. You use a flat line, as in no downward slope at all? That would sound insanely bright to me.

It's doing something that's muddying the sound too much with gains in the +/- 4dB. I didn't snap that, as I said that was just a quick test to confirm my suspicions that something isn't right with mic calibration on Apple devices in the frequencies above 10kHz at least.

Interestingly, I wonder whether the old iPad curve with the big treble bump is actually closer to reality while the fairly new iPhone 14 is the one losing the plot above a certain frequency. The speaker is fairly bright and has a ton of 'details' in the high end (though not harsh, probably thanks to the AMT) and the curves published in the press for the Piegas reassemble more that shape with bumps on both end.

Anyways I've ordered an IMM6, we'll see how things turn out ;-)

 

[harkpabst]

It honestly doesn't sound bright at any volume. Before the Harman curve did everyone have bleeding ears from listening to their flat systems? . What happens if the studio also uses a Harman curve at mastering time? You would end up with cascaded Harman curves in your listening room.

That's a misconception. The Harman curve is not something superimposed on otherwise linear reproduction to get rid of harsh treble. At least following the publications of Toole and Oliver it's almost more of a discovery than an invention.

Put a speaker system with (anechoic) linear on-axis response and (allegedly) desirable directivity in a typical living room and (measured in the MLP) you will end up with an average response similar to the Harman curve, superimposed (tonandegree) with room resonances and reflections.

It's not a sound effect.