Vangelo51
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2 tracks recorded using different power supplies.
Test WIIM pro+ with different power supplies
- Thread starter D1N0
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The same source one as I can see, but what is the name? I will record it and compare.
Vangelo51
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From Level 42 album 'World Machine', 2nd track, side 1.
I've tried with 3 different WiiMs, 3 different chargers and 3 different digital interfaces for capturing. The recorded file was always the same and different than any of yours. My files
yours
I would suggest you to verify if your audio path for playback/capturing is bit-perfect as it looks like some processing involved.
yours
I would suggest you to verify if your audio path for playback/capturing is bit-perfect as it looks like some processing involved.
Vangelo51
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I dont think it really matters. The 2 files I made have the same parameters with regards to each other, and may differ from yours.
The comparison only matters in regard to the files I made and if anyone can actually hear a difference between the 2 power supplies I used.
The comparison only matters in regard to the files I made and if anyone can actually hear a difference between the 2 power supplies I used.
Vangelo51
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I dont see how that makes a difference if the 'processing' is identical for both files....they will just cancel out as they are common. The pertinent difference will be the fact that the files are recorded with different power supplies, and if anyone can detect the difference by playing the files back in their system, which is what this thread is about.
As much as I enjoy this back & forth banter with you, I think the moderators will be telling us off again, so I am going to end the discussion here. Nobody seems to interested in my test files anyway, but I have distributed them among my hifi buddies to see what result I get.
I also do a lot of needle-drops for my buddies using this digitising system with no complaints.
As much as I enjoy this back & forth banter with you, I think the moderators will be telling us off again, so I am going to end the discussion here. Nobody seems to interested in my test files anyway, but I have distributed them among my hifi buddies to see what result I get.
I also do a lot of needle-drops for my buddies using this digitising system with no complaints.
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The only difference between your files is a dither-like white noise visible in the delta on -93 rms dBFS level. You can think it's because of different PSUs used, but it's not. I wish you good luck with listening to this.
This noise is even more visible during the comparison with my unaltered files.
This noise is even more visible during the comparison with my unaltered files.
The same processing applied does not guarantee that results will be also the same. Add some random noise ( = the same processing) and analyze differences (= different results).
Vangelo51
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If I understand you right, you are saying there is in fact a measurable difference between the 2 files I made.....but this is not due to the power supply?
Can you please explain where it comes from because the 2 files were recorded within minutes of each other, using exactly the same settings on Audacity. All I did was swap the power supplies. I did not tamper with the files in any way to get a different result.
Can you please explain where it comes from because the 2 files were recorded within minutes of each other, using exactly the same settings on Audacity. All I did was swap the power supplies. I did not tamper with the files in any way to get a different result.
As I said already, your audio chain does not look as a bit-perfect one. If there is an additional processing involved, it can alter streams also in an unpredictable way. Remove unnecessary variables from the equation to get valid results. Use a known local file for recording and compare results with it to make sure that your setup does not alter the audio stream.
When the chain is confirmed to be bit-perfect then looking for differences with PSUs will make sense.
From my personal experience as I did such recordings dozens of times with WiiMs and different chargers, PSUs are irrelevant for capturing in the digital domain. Of course YMMV.
When the chain is confirmed to be bit-perfect then looking for differences with PSUs will make sense.
From my personal experience as I did such recordings dozens of times with WiiMs and different chargers, PSUs are irrelevant for capturing in the digital domain. Of course YMMV.
Vangelo51
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There is no 'chain'.....only the Wiim.
Files are being streamed from Amazon Music direct to the Wiim via Alexacast. If any 'processing' is going on, then its within Amazon, the wifi connection, or the Wiim.
These files have been created in a 'musical' way, because this is how I listen to my music. I am not generating a pure sine wave with scientific equipment and then measuring the effect on that and listening on one speaker in an anechoic chamber. I want to see if anyone can hear if changing the power supply has an effect on listening to music in a normal stereo sound system that may inherently have other noise or processing going on which remains a constant. To eliminate all the other noises & processes that may be going on at the same time, but that are 'constant' and present the whole time, is not part of the brief.
Files are being streamed from Amazon Music direct to the Wiim via Alexacast. If any 'processing' is going on, then its within Amazon, the wifi connection, or the Wiim.
These files have been created in a 'musical' way, because this is how I listen to my music. I am not generating a pure sine wave with scientific equipment and then measuring the effect on that and listening on one speaker in an anechoic chamber. I want to see if anyone can hear if changing the power supply has an effect on listening to music in a normal stereo sound system that may inherently have other noise or processing going on which remains a constant. To eliminate all the other noises & processes that may be going on at the same time, but that are 'constant' and present the whole time, is not part of the brief.
There is a chain because the stream doesn't go magically from the WiiM into the file on the PC. For some reason your files are attenuated which suggests that an additional processing was involved.
If you are interested in audible differences only than fine, but I'm pretty sure no one will hear it for such a noise being the only difference. If you are really interested in checking if the PSU makes / does not make differences for capturing in the digital domain, solve issue with your chain first.
If you are interested in audible differences only than fine, but I'm pretty sure no one will hear it for such a noise being the only difference. If you are really interested in checking if the PSU makes / does not make differences for capturing in the digital domain, solve issue with your chain first.
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Theres always a risk of drawing wrong conclusions making a fool of myself- But hey, its christmas.
Bits are bits … or ?
File A : less dynamic, more together - a paradox, maybe more musical ?
File B : more dynamic, more spatial details when a lot of instruments is in the mix. I cant follow the base player as easy as file A though.
Overall good quality on this recording material. I thought the differences between file A and B was slightly bigger with my lm317 LPS . With my Apple charger from 2012 they sounded more the same, however there was a difference.
Edit: just listened to the TIDAL version using ethernet to my WiiM pro and the lm317 power supply and it sounded even better = audacity in a computer is not 100% transparent ( I already knew this from doing my own recordings )
Bits are bits … or ?
File A : less dynamic, more together - a paradox, maybe more musical ?
File B : more dynamic, more spatial details when a lot of instruments is in the mix. I cant follow the base player as easy as file A though.
Overall good quality on this recording material. I thought the differences between file A and B was slightly bigger with my lm317 LPS . With my Apple charger from 2012 they sounded more the same, however there was a difference.
Edit: just listened to the TIDAL version using ethernet to my WiiM pro and the lm317 power supply and it sounded even better = audacity in a computer is not 100% transparent ( I already knew this from doing my own recordings )
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Rudivanb
Member
I have finally listened with Wiim Pro powered by the IFI Power X and comparing the IFI to the LPS (Linear Power Supply) as tested earlier in this post this post , using my playlist on Qobuz: Wiim Pro PSUs test .
The description of the DAC/Amp and headphones etc. is in my profile.
First I tried the IFI in the last outlet of the power block:
Music played, but after approx. 2 minutes got a distorted crackling sound. After turning off, and on again the Wiim same thing happened.
Switched from Coax to optical connection between the Wiim and amp, no distorted sound at all. The problem was solved by turning the IFI 180⁰ in the outlet; using the Coax connection gave no issues anymore. So that shows that the IFI is sensitive to the correct polarity.
Note: I prefer using the Coax output because in my case it sounds better.
Now the listening could finally begin:
1. With IFI iPower X in the last outlet of power strip:
Not 100% happy, knowing it can sound better.
2. With the IFI in the 3rd outlet, which is normally used for the PSU to the Wiim: better than 1. Music sounds louder than with the LPS, with some tracks I prefer to set a lower volume. It sounds very clean, though I am a bit less emotionally involved in the music, maybe a bit of nervousness is added by the IFI. S-sounds are okay, but a bit less variety in them. Maybe there is a little bit less force in the sub lows. I feel less urge to listen to every track in the playlist completely. It sounds very good, yet I am still missing something.
Going back to the LPS powering the Wiim:
3. More subtleties, details and especially more natural. For example in the track by Kendji Girac and Soprano their different voices are easier to seperate. Emotions in the music are easier conveyed.
Because music sounds apparently a bit less loud, I can turn up the volume higher, yet without any listening fatigue.
These small but important improvements brought by the LPS, make me want to listen, not analytical but for pleasure.
With a warm sounding system you might prefer the IFI, however in my set I will keep using the LPS powering the Wiim Pro and enjoy the music... a lot.
The description of the DAC/Amp and headphones etc. is in my profile.
First I tried the IFI in the last outlet of the power block:
Music played, but after approx. 2 minutes got a distorted crackling sound. After turning off, and on again the Wiim same thing happened.
Switched from Coax to optical connection between the Wiim and amp, no distorted sound at all. The problem was solved by turning the IFI 180⁰ in the outlet; using the Coax connection gave no issues anymore. So that shows that the IFI is sensitive to the correct polarity.
Note: I prefer using the Coax output because in my case it sounds better.
Now the listening could finally begin:
1. With IFI iPower X in the last outlet of power strip:
Not 100% happy, knowing it can sound better.
2. With the IFI in the 3rd outlet, which is normally used for the PSU to the Wiim: better than 1. Music sounds louder than with the LPS, with some tracks I prefer to set a lower volume. It sounds very clean, though I am a bit less emotionally involved in the music, maybe a bit of nervousness is added by the IFI. S-sounds are okay, but a bit less variety in them. Maybe there is a little bit less force in the sub lows. I feel less urge to listen to every track in the playlist completely. It sounds very good, yet I am still missing something.
Going back to the LPS powering the Wiim:
3. More subtleties, details and especially more natural. For example in the track by Kendji Girac and Soprano their different voices are easier to seperate. Emotions in the music are easier conveyed.
Because music sounds apparently a bit less loud, I can turn up the volume higher, yet without any listening fatigue.
These small but important improvements brought by the LPS, make me want to listen, not analytical but for pleasure.
With a warm sounding system you might prefer the IFI, however in my set I will keep using the LPS powering the Wiim Pro and enjoy the music... a lot.
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